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Ok so ive researched and researched i hate being the noob that asks question someone can easily find doing a google search i just did it wrong but my problem is this. Im trying to develop a load for my M1 Garand i received from my late Grandpa. I have been working on a load using 48gr H4895 with FA Match cases and CCI200 primers with sierra 150gr fmjbt i was able to get 1.5" @ 100yrds groups but i ran out of sierras before i could transfer the load to a commercial case. So i bought some hornady 150gr fmjbt which made my group worse and drop 3". I have a wide variety of cases to use. Powders i have on hand are H4895, W748, W760, and IMR4064. I have Sierra MatchKing 168gr and 175gr, and Nosler 155gr HPBT. My questions are when switching from military cases to commercial cases how much do you INCREASE the load? Also when using a full factory crimp from lee should you DECREASE the load? I also have an adjustable gas plug on my Garand as well
 

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First off get rid of the plug, If ole man Garand didnt make it, you dont need it.

If you have a spread, then lower the powder and see if it tightens up.

milsurp cases have less volume than commercial brass, so your load may very.

Dont shoot nuttin heavier than 155gr pills. You can shoot heaver, dont.

Feed your grand what is whats, not what you want to feed it. 147-155gr
 

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Resize your cases (now the OD is as close to the same as you can get it).

Trim your cases (now the length is as close to the same as you can get it).

Now weigh some cases. If the OD and the length are the same, the difference is weight translates into thicker case walls = less internal volume = higher pressures with the same powder charge.

I've found little to no diffence in 30.06 between most military cases and civilian cases. Not true for .308. The military cases are heavier/thicker walled.

I'm would not use Win 760 in my M1 Garands or M1A. Slow burn rate.

J. C. Garand didn't put an adjustable gas plug on M1 Garands because GIs didn't shoot 8 different brands of commercial ammo, with 10 different bullet weights and 14 different powders of varying burn rates. I have one on my M1 Garand and all I shoot is HXP or my IMR4895/150 grain bullet reloads.

As AKA Hugo said, "modest" loads work just fine. Often you'll find your best groups with loads that 150 to 200 fps UNDER the max load listed in the reloading manual.

There is nothing wrong with trying different (suitable for the M1) powders and bullets and primers while working up a load. With my poor old M1A I went through Sierra, Hornady and Speer bullets from 150 to 180 grains, two Winchester powders, five different IMR powders and two brands of primers trying to find something that shot suitable groups. After lots of time/effort (fun as it was) I gave up and accepted it would never really shoot to suit me. Good enough, but never what I'd hoped for.

If your case necks/shoulder are blackened with powder the pressure is a little low, maybe the rifle still functions fine and they are accurate. That's okay. My M1 Garand loads give me dirty brass and I don't care. People think that old war horse is a match rifle of some kind. Accuracy beats velocity all day in my book. I don't care if the group is two inches lower on the target than a hotter load if its half the size.
 

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First thing is disregard blow hards that put down others who's opinions dont count for ship.

Its been nice being here, I dont have to put up with this ship from any tin horn expert.

I will stand by everything I posted. Bend your op rod see if I care.

AMF
 

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1.5" for an as issued Garand is exceptional. Most will shoot in the 2-4" range no matter what they are fed.
Go back to the load that got you there.
The 168SMK with either 47g of IMR4895 or 48g of 4064 will shoot as well as anything else in most guns.
I stay away from ball powders.

Google, Loading for the M1 Garand by John Clarke.
 

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The 168SMK with either 47g of 4895 or 48g of 4064 will shoot as well as anything else in most guns.
..
Agree, but I would be sure to distinguish between IMR4895 and H4895. They are different (H4895 is faster). A 47 grain of H4895 would not be the same as the same load of IMR4895. Probably still "OK??" (don't have/own the Hornaday Manual to double check--maybe someone on this forum has a copy?--I might be a bit leery of this load in H4895 without triple checking). As noted above, I am pretty happy with lower velocities.

168 Hornady A-Max H4895 46.5 2,643

This is a pretty decent article that you might find helpful (with loading data):

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/matchgrade-3006?page=1
 

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Clarified the earlier post. I have never used H powders. Always IMR
Yes my loads are a little warmer than Internet wisdom claims is necessary.
They shoot well and thousands of rounds through my rifles show that they won't hurt a thing.
1g hotter for both actually shoot measurably better but isn't necessary for a John C Garand match.

I have had very good results with the Sierra 125 Match King and the Nosler 140 CC.
The Nosler has become unobtanium. Short run perhaps?
I will qualify the light bullets by saying that by the time I got them shooting as well or better than the 168s the recoil was almost back to the 168 levels.
 

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My M1 with Criterion barrel loves 168 SMK with 46.5 Varget in HXP cases with any sort of primer. 1.5 groups. It also like IMR 4064 47 grains with 168 SMK , same group size. Some people like to load 125 grain match bullets for 200 yard or less as the recoil is less.
The sweet spot for Garands seems to be 46-48 grains of IMR 4064 or something similar. Lots of articles about it.
 

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Ok so ive researched and researched i hate being the noob that asks question someone can easily find doing a google search i just did it wrong but my problem is this. Im trying to develop a load for my M1 Garand i received from my late Grandpa. I have been working on a load using 48gr H4895 with FA Match cases and CCI200 primers with sierra 150gr fmjbt i was able to get 1.5" @ 100yrds groups but i ran out of sierras before i could transfer the load to a commercial case. So i bought some hornady 150gr fmjbt which made my group worse and drop 3". I have a wide variety of cases to use. Powders i have on hand are H4895, W748, W760, and IMR4064. I have Sierra MatchKing 168gr and 175gr, and Nosler 155gr HPBT. My questions are when switching from military cases to commercial cases how much do you INCREASE the load? Also when using a full factory crimp from lee should you DECREASE the load? I also have an adjustable gas plug on my Garand as well
IMR 4064 is a great choice, so is IMR 4895. I personally prefer the 4064. The 30/06 case is pretty big volume wise, so unless you're using a pretty hot load, as Hugh said, then there is really no need to reduce the charges.

The Sierra 168s and the 4064 are a really good combo, I've also used Hornady 110 gr sp with very good results out to 200 yds. Recoil is reduced and those 110s are $10/100 cheaper. Crimping is not necessary in the M1 with any bullet, just no need for it.

I've never understood the need for an adj. gas plug in the Garand, since there are quite a few powder and bullet choices out there, but to each his own. Here's a link to some loads for the Garand. Scroll all the way to the end. The only advice given in it that I do not agree with are to use CCI #34 primers to prevent "slamfires". The best way to prevent salmfires is to make sure the primer is seated BELOW flush in the case. You finger tip and eyeball are good tools to make sure that is the case. I've used CCCI 200s for years and never had an issue, HTH

http://www.radomski.us/njhp/cart_tech.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow thank you all for the info. I dont plan on using anything over 155gr just because im using the bigger pills in my 1917 and spanish mauser 308. Ive been using H4895 actually ive just about used an entire pound for which i was raped when i bought it because of powder being scarce $46. The reason im trying to use commercial brass is because i dont have very many FA Match cases and i know they wont last long. Has anyone tried adjusting bullet seating depth to just .020 off lands? I was successfully able to seat the bullet that far out with hornady and sierra but not these nosler. Does anyone have experience with crimping?
 

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Why do you want to crimp, it is not necessary and will damage the bullet unless you're shooting one with a cannuelre (sp?). If you have good brass and resized them correctly, you'll have more than enough neck tension to keep the bullet in place.
 

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Use 'stick' powder such as 4895 or 4064. Those powders have the proper burn rate for the M1.

DON'T use the max loads from manuals unless they are specfically for M1.
Max loads are usually for use in bolt action rifles, and their use in an M1 can cause problems with too much gas pressure for the oprod.

An M1 will function fine with 'medium MV' loads, and they will shoot fine out to at least 300 yards.

For accuracy the easiest thing to do is buy good 'target bullets' such as Sierra Match Kings, or similar from other namebrand makers. Bullets in the 135 - 168 grain weight range will work fine, 175 is ok but causes unneeded recoil unless shooting beyond 600 yards.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Sorry TCAF your post didn't show when I replied earlier. But I just thought that it would uniform the neck tension so more consistency. If you get a case that was annealed and one that wasn't you have an inconsistency so I thought I would use the Lee factory crimp I got with my dies but from the research I've done hardly anyone crimps
 

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The Garand was designed around the 175 gr M1 Ball ammo. From most reports I have read, most people get the best accuracy with bullets in the 168 - 175 gr range.
There are those who want to load as lightly as possible, using 125 gr bullets to get better accuracy, and less recoil.
I prefer to load mine as God and JCG meant it to be used. If I had known then, when I loaded several thousand rounds using M2 Ball, what I know now, I would have loaded all that ammo with 168 gr match bullets.USN4
 

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I use and recommend the Lee Factory Crimp Die for M1/M1A etc. I also remove the swager/sizer button on my sizing die, so while there is no need to crimp per-se, the Lee FCD with a VERY LIGHT "crimp"does in fact lower my SD's a bit and SEEMS to give me (slightly) better groups. As long as you don't over-do things with the FCD, it won't distort the bullet(s).

Honestly, I would use, like, and recommend any of the following as my "first choice" powders for M1 (or M1A): 4895, Varget, 4064, REL15.

I would not waste my time looking for an ideal seating depth. For 168's, I just stick with 3.30 and (way) shorter for 125/130. I doubt you will get anything close to the leade/lands without either being too long to feed from the clip-well or getting the "wobblies" (run-out). When you get a chance, find some 125/130 grain hunting bullets and try those. Despite a pretty "huge" jump to the lands, they can be EXCEEDINGLY accurate.
 

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You are loading for a Spanish Mauser? I had one 1916 model converted to 308/7.62 by Spanish , these were small ring Mausers that only had two locking lugs vs the 3 of the model 98. There were originally chambered in 7x57 and the working pressure is quite a bit less than 308. The one I had I could never load it above 2400 FPS without distorting the brass. Be carefull
 
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