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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
By this time many have been made aware of the importance of the proper relationship between the FB and the SF in the quest for Accuracy in the M1A.

Recently I suggested that a good quality epoxy be used instead of general bedding compound to secure the SF to the stock tenon. It was also mentioned in that Post to avoid putting the epoxy on the front end of the Tenon and in the front surface of the SF. The reason this location of epoxy can be dangerous to your project is, epoxy in these to places will change the overall length of the stock. On the other hand, putting epoxy on these two surfaces can lengthen the stock overall if needed to establish a desired Gap, so, it works both ways. The latter is, in effect, re-locating the stock mounting tenon to a more forward position. The stock tenon can be filed shorter, you have to remove a equal amount of stock material behind the tenon if you do this, to re-located the stock tenon to make the stock overall shorter.

The Gap, or distance, between the front surface of the SF and the back side of the FB when the rifle is assembled is very important. There should be a Gap to prevent these two surfaces from contacting one another during the firing of the rifle. How much Gap is a popular question, They should not touch. Since we cannot see the relationship between the FB and SF when firing, a gap of .020" mim. is suggested. Too much of a Gap can be a problem also, it would not offer enough support and the SF will become battered. If the FB lip is over the SF by 3 /32" you are OK, but do not set up to this mim. overlap on purpose.

Most of the problems I have encountered in this matter resulted from using Commercial stocks which can be out of Spec..

As a reminder, the planned Gap can be altered if you forget to take into consideration the thickness of a Gag Cylinder shim installation. Some material on the front of the SF can be filed off on too close fitting parts, the SF is thin, so be careful how much you file off.

If you have found a better method, that holds up, and does not create another issue down the line, feel free to share it. art
 

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Art,

I have been working on my stock after receiving your valuable input and I personally feel I am about as done as done on my stock Springer, thanks for all you do



 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Looks real good..

Panther, The one trouble spot I see is the small clearance between the rolled under edges of the FB and the top edge of the SF.. I do not know if they will bounce off one another when fired but they are very close.

If you are inclined, anneal the rounded surfaces of the two rolled under tabs. place the FB in a vise, wood pads to protect the finish, and with a flat end punch pound these two tabs up leaving just enough gap to install the HG. Doing this drives the tabs upward a little which will provide more clearance. Also they will secure the HG better. Make certain you anneal them completely or they will break off. Art
 

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Will do Sir Thank You, just gotta buy a torch... been wanting to try brass annealing anyway GI1
 

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If you anneal these "ears" do you you try to reharden them? Is this like a spot anneal job? I suppose you could do the same thing to drill the FB for unitizing to the gas cylinder. I want to try to do a screw and glue job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
annealing FB

If you anneal these "ears" do you you try to reharden them? Is this like a spot anneal job? I suppose you could do the same thing to drill the FB for unitizing to the gas cylinder. I want to try to do a screw and glue job.
I do a spot anneal only on the FB.. When the tabs are turned in and up, make sure they do not go so far as to contact the barrel. This Mod usually requires some reshaping of the Hand Guard tenon for a smooth slip fit. I never re-hardened the tabs, there is no reason to do so. As for drilling the screw holes for unitizing, I can not help you, I never used the screw together Mod.. , in my opinion the screw method is not as good as welding. My rifles are epoxied only, of course I do not shoot across the course where epoxy may not hold up under that kind of shooting. Art
 

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This is an excellent thread, from my perspective. And, I appreciate the knowledge I have gained as I am a Newby Dude when it comes to the M1A/M14 rifle platform.

From this thread I have figured out that FB means the front band and SF means the stock ferrule.

Is there some place on this Site, that contains definitions of the acronyms used on these various forums?

If there is, it would speed up my learning curve...

Bill
 

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I think this will help
http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=68651

This is an excellent thread, from my perspective. And, I appreciate the knowledge I have gained as I am a Newby Dude when it comes to the M1A/M14 rifle platform.

From this thread I have figured out that FB means the front band and SF means the stock ferrule.

Is there some place on this Site, that contains definitions of the acronyms used on these various forums?

If there is, it would speed up my learning curve...

Bill
 

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I just went over there and added like 20 more abbreviations to Shadow in PM and got dropped offline, of course that thirty minutes of work is gone forever....dammmm.....figure these need added if you see this shadow

MOA-minute of angle
MOM-minute of man
SF-stock ferrel
FB-front band...actually should be BB for barrel band, because " front " was carried over from the garand and there is no rear on an M14. Might confuse new guys
GC-gas cylinder
GP-gas plug
UGS-unitized gas system
BST-bolt stop
POI-point of impact
POA-point of aim
CSP-correct sight picture
SCG-stripper clip guide
SV-spindle valve

I forgot the rest, I'm old.....MM-memphis machinist said "If you anneal these "ears" do you you try to reharden them?"....Here's how I do it, taught to me by an old ,old man, but more for a tempering process, has worked well for me for 1 1/2 years with no noticeable problems....Go to the grocery store and buy the largest baking potatoe you can find, cut it in half the long way and cut out the shape of half the band on one side, then matching on the other side, scoop out 1/4'' deep total...1/8'' from both sides, the thickness of the band edgeways, wrap in aluminum foil and bake at 450 degrees for 45 minutes, anneal and bend band as desired, get mitts on and yank potatoe out of the oven, unwrap quickly and pull in half, insert BB into cutout, put back together quickly and wrap back in foil, add thick towel around foil and set on counter to cool at normal room temperature. Reassemble rifle and fully loaded baked potatoe, then eat and go shoot....Ohh, it taste better if you degrease BB first before bending and tempering in the potatoe...heh heh heh....
 

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I just went over there and added like 20 more abbreviations to Shadow in PM and got dropped offline, of course that thirty minutes of work is gone forever....dammmm.....figure these need added if you see this shadow

MOA-minute of angle
MOM-minute of man
SF-stock ferrel
FB-front band...actually should be BB for barrel band, because " front " was carried over from the garand and there is no rear on an M14. Might confuse new guys
GC-gas cylinder
GP-gas plug
UGS-unitized gas system
BST-bolt stop
POI-point of impact
POA-point of aim
CSP-correct sight picture
SCG-stripper clip guide
SV-spindle valve

I forgot the rest, I'm old.....MM-memphis machinist said "If you anneal these "ears" do you you try to reharden them?"....Here's how I do it, taught to me by an old ,old man, but more for a tempering process, has worked well for me for 1 1/2 years with no noticeable problems....Go to the grocery store and buy the largest baking potatoe you can find, cut it in half the long way and cut out the shape of half the band on one side, then matching on the other side, scoop out 1/4'' deep total...1/8'' from both sides, the thickness of the band edgeways, wrap in aluminum foil and bake at 450 degrees for 45 minutes, anneal and bend band as desired, get mitts on and yank potatoe out of the oven, unwrap quickly and pull in half, insert BB into cutout, put back together quickly and wrap back in foil, add thick towel around foil and set on counter to cool at normal room temperature. Reassemble rifle and fully loaded baked potatoe, then eat and go shoot....Ohh, it taste better if you degrease BB first before bending and tempering in the potatoe...heh heh heh....
These are the ones I have beeen looking for... Thank you again.

Bill
 

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You are very welcome sir,....I was scratching my head for a long time around here before I figured them all out....you know how many post you have to read to get someone that types out the entire word, and a light can go off in your head to match it up ?.....thousands, thats how many for me to get it, but it came with an added benefit, I retain all I read and learned a ton of stuff from the membership here, best bunch anywhere for my money.

Forgot to add TG for trigger group, and probably more.
 

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You are very welcome sir,....I was scratching my head for a long time around here before I figured them all out....you know how many post you have to read to get someone that types out the entire word, and a light can go off in your head to match it up ?.....thousands, thats how many for me to get it, but it came with an added benefit, I retain all I read and learned a ton of stuff from the membership here, best bunch anywhere for my money.

Forgot to add TG for trigger group, and probably more.
I've only been here for a short time and already, thanks to many people like you, I have learned so much that I am taking notes.

You said, "best bunch anywhere for my money." You're right, it sure looks like that to me, too.

Bill
 

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I should have seen this thread yesterday. But I guess it's not to late to reheat and temper. Plus I have another FB to bend the tabs on. Mmmm baked potatoes for lunch.
 

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dampening barrel vibration

Art, in addition to the standard match mods to fb,gc,hg and stock ; I cut a thin rubber shim (dampner) the shape of sf and thin silicone film to sf to secure shim. I also place a thin strip on the lip of the fb. I've done this to my rifles since the 90's. My intention is to dampen barrel vibration/movement and to lesson/eliminate the movment between sf and fb. I would like your valued opinion on this. It seems to work for me and it certainly did not make rifle shoot worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Stock Ferule

Art, in addition to the standard match mods to fb,gc,hg and stock ; I cut a thin rubber shim (dampner) the shape of sf and thin silicone film to sf to secure shim. I also place a thin strip on the lip of the fb. I've done this to my rifles since the 90's. My intention is to dampen barrel vibration/movement and to lesson/eliminate the movment between sf and fb. I would like your valued opinion on this. It seems to work for me and it certainly did not make rifle shoot worse.
Having some sort of material between the Lip and the SF was used, with limited success, some years back, I can not remember which Company did this.

There were three issues as a result, The material was difficult to keep in place and if the material was not very thin it reduced the needed gap between the top on the SF and the FB. The thin, what ever it was, material had a tendency to go away after a while. Art
 

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Art, I have'nt experienced those issues but, I don't shoot thousands of rounds a month. I just use bicycle inner tube, cut out the u shape smear a very thin film silicone gasket sealer on front end of sf place u shape rubber on let dri. Assemble rifle, no gap between sf end and fb. Makes a good tight fit. THANK YOU for your wisdom Art. If it were'nt for guys like you we would be in the dark.
 
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