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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been reading around a lot on accurizing the M14, and it seems that front band tension is quite a thing, which makes me wonder if anyone has ever successfully approached a certain way.
We're seemingly (I'm open to correction) trying to apply tension to the front band by using the stock itself as a spring to keep the ferrule/band relationship constant for each shot for consistency as it apparently wanders (quite understandable) with the vibrations from the shot.
Since it is such a thing to lug these rifles for superb accuracy, which can mean already removing screws from pillars in the bedding, why not take one more screw out of a simple clamping assembly at the front of the stock. It would take welding or clamping onto the bottom of the gas assembly a bracket with at least one though preferably two small bolts that mate to a bracket on the inside of the stock, under the piston.
This clamped condition is more repeatable than the simply-supported sort of deal sought after by smoothing and tensioning the horse-shoe shaped interface in what is really more of an (honestly magical) art form than an engineering endeavor in my humble opinion as a budding mechanical engineer.

So, again, have any of you tried it? I am hoping at least one old salt has given it a go, even if he tells me it made something strange happen, like pentagram-shaped hole patterns after a sufficient round count an the next day JFK died from one of the M118s used... ICONEEK
 

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I've been reading around a lot on accurizing the M14, and it seems that front band tension is quite a thing, which makes me wonder if anyone has ever successfully approached a certain way.
We're seemingly (I'm open to correction) trying to apply tension to the front band by using the stock itself as a spring to keep the ferrule/band relationship constant for each shot for consistency as it apparently wanders (quite understandable) with the vibrations from the shot.
Since it is such a thing to lug these rifles for superb accuracy, which can mean already removing screws from pillars in the bedding, why not take one more screw out of a simple clamping assembly at the front of the stock. It would take welding clamping onto the bottom of the gas assembly a bracket with at least one though preferably two small bolts that mate to a bracket on the inside of the stock, under the piston.
This clamped condition is more repeatable than the simply-supported sort of deal sought after by smoothing and tensioning the horse-shoe shaped interface in what is really more of an (honestly magical) art form than an engineering endeavor in my humble opinion as a budding mechanical engineer.

So, again, have any of you tried it? I am hoping at least one old salt has given it a go, even if he tells me it made something strange happen, like pentagram-shaped hole patterns after a sufficient round count an the next day JFK died from one of the M118s used... ICONEEK
What? speak engrish I'm not a enginier, cool pic can you make it bigger?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What? speak engrish I'm not a enginier, cool pic can you make it bigger?
Haha, that's just the USGI barrel/chamber drawing I lifted from God knows where in the internet. I literally just had this idea and figured that rather than making a sketch, scanning it, and uploading it, I could just describe it.
 

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I've been reading around a lot on accurizing the M14, and it seems that front band tension is quite a thing, which makes me wonder if anyone has ever successfully approached a certain way.
We're seemingly (I'm open to correction) trying to apply tension to the front band by using the stock itself as a spring to keep the ferrule/band relationship constant for each shot for consistency as it apparently wanders (quite understandable) with the vibrations from the shot.
Since it is such a thing to lug these rifles for superb accuracy, which can mean already removing screws from pillars in the bedding, why not take one more screw out of a simple clamping assembly at the front of the stock. It would take welding or clamping onto the bottom of the gas assembly a bracket with at least one though preferably two small bolts that mate to a bracket on the inside of the stock, under the piston.
This clamped condition is more repeatable than the simply-supported sort of deal sought after by smoothing and tensioning the horse-shoe shaped interface in what is really more of an (honestly magical) art form than an engineering endeavor in my humble opinion as a budding mechanical engineer.

So, again, have any of you tried it? I am hoping at least one old salt has given it a go, even if he tells me it made something strange happen, like pentagram-shaped hole patterns after a sufficient round count an the next day JFK died from one of the M118s used... ICONEEK
Well I'm going too tackle this and just throw it out, the reason you don't see this is the addition of extra parts adding bulk. another reason is back in the day accuracy mod's were done with the idea that they had too conform too the rules of High Power Service Rifle, meaning that you could not alter the outside look of the rifle. Under the hood so too say was fair game.

The old saying goes something like this anything that moves should do so freely and return too its at rest position freely. A perfect example of this is the tilt test. If it doesn't move, keep it locked it down. And a perfect example of this is receiver too stock fit. With the addition of extra parts there foundation/anchorage or how solidly there secured rears its ugly head, eventually they will come loose. Its hard too weld metal too wood or synthetics and epoxies can wear or break down over time.
 

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What Phil said makes sense regarding the traditional "Wood and Steel" m14. But...some of the modern chassis have done almost exactly what you explained by putting a bolt through the forward stock just under a special OPROD guide ---thus making it adjustable. once final adjustment is achieved, the bolt is locked in place with a set screw.

Here is M14.CAs description of what the Blackfeather is designed to do:

"The unique new adjustable M14.ca oprod guide free floats the barrel from the ORG forward, and is adjustable vertically, which allows you to tune your M14 rifle in a way no other system can. You can adjust barrel to stock vertical tension and thereby adjust "barrel harmonics" to maximize accuracy with an individual load. Or you can simply set the tension adjustment at neutral, which has shown in testing to provide improved average accuracy with many different loads."

I think some of the other modern chassis have done similar things.
 

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"Since it is such a thing to lug these rifles for superb accuracy, which can mean already removing screws from pillars in the bedding, why not take one more screw out of a simple clamping assembly at the front of the stock."

WTF does this mean, in English??
 

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What Phil said makes sense regarding the traditional "Wood and Steel" m14. But...some of the modern chassis have done almost exactly what you explained by putting a bolt through the forward stock just under a special OPROD guide ---thus making it adjustable. once final adjustment is achieved, the bolt is locked in place with a set screw.

Here is M14.CAs description of what the Blackfeather is designed to do:

"The unique new adjustable M14.ca oprod guide free floats the barrel from the ORG forward, and is adjustable vertically, which allows you to tune your M14 rifle in a way no other system can. You can adjust barrel to stock vertical tension and thereby adjust "barrel harmonics" to maximize accuracy with an individual load. Or you can simply set the tension adjustment at neutral, which has shown in testing to provide improved average accuracy with many different loads."

I think some of the other modern chassis have done similar things.
I can't help but too think, he was thinking of adding another screw/bolt too the G/C and licking it down like everything else?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What Phil said makes sense regarding the traditional "Wood and Steel" m14. But...some of the modern chassis have done almost exactly what you explained by putting a bolt through the forward stock just under a special OPROD guide ---thus making it adjustable. once final adjustment is achieved, the bolt is locked in place with a set screw.
...
That's where I was going. I understand the match limitations, but everyplace else (such as combat) those rules aren't important. It really is the same as the M14.CA stock, which I find to be a great idea except that it is at the front of the stock rather than in the middle - using the ferrule instead of the op-rod guide.

It just seems more straightforward and simple to me to just turn some screws for that effect rather than tune how much the stock has to bend and all that artisanry.

I can't help but too think, he was thinking of adding another screw/bolt too the G/C and licking it down like everything else?
A screw or two through the stock, or a bracket to the cylinder... Lemme sketch this now that I'm at my desk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Super Sciency Drawing!

Here's the basic idea shown after the band tension method and M14.CA method.

Also, I didn't draw, scan, and upload it quite so quickly. It took me on the order of 10-15 minutes to make this up, and when nearly done I realized I never posted the previous entry.
 

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Old Methods

What many folks seem to be doing is to re-invent the wheel. Some of the "modern" M14 stocks being pushed today do work fairly well to enhance accuracy without glass bedding, but most all are made of metal and heavy. The old methods used to accurize the M14 in a wood or fiberglass stock were developed to insure match grade rifles shoot with the best accuracy obtainable with their gas powered system (lots of moving parts and odd stresses). No "modern stock" has exhibited the ability to shoot better although their field accuracy has been shown to be easier to maintain. Enhanced, but not match grade accuracy has been their goal and they have achieved that.
 
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