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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,

New to the m14 forums but there seems to be a great wealth of information here.

I recently got into HP shooting competitions through the gun club I belong to. The only rifle I currently own that is allowed to compete in such competitions is my M1A SOCOM 16. After my first match I quickly realized that this rifle leaves a little bit to be desired on the accuracy side when competing against $5-6000 match rifles like the Tubb's. That's not to say there's no shooter error involved either, but as a Marine with almost 8 years in, as well as experience accrued before that, I'm pretty familiar with my own skill level.

My question is, would it be more cost effective to buy a brand new rifle such as a supermatch 14, or could I attach a kreiger heavy barrel to my socom's action and drop it into say, a JAE G3 stock, and achieve equivalent accuracy? I know I'm oversimplifying it and there would be more necessary modifications to tweak accuracy, but I just want to get a feel for the idea in general.

I do handload my ammunition so the reduced accuracy from factory ammo is not an issue. I'd like to use this rifle to shoot in F-class events as well, but as is and at my current altitude, my poor SOCOM can't even hit 900 yards.

Thoughts?
 

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At least you have the basics...unless the stock has been modified, it and all the parts except the front end (sights, etc.) can probably be used or modified. Better trigger job, gas cylinder work etc. A good quality NM bbl from a quality supplier, bedding, etc. Will make it into a good shooter. You will not compete with the tube guns, we know that. By the way, the JAE stock will not be legal for CMP matches but you can do whatever you want to make it into a match rifle. You may also want to consider a NM AR. You are already intimate with the basic style, it may be easier & less expensive than the 7.62format. Creedmor has had some excellent uppers lately.

I had contact (email) with a gentleman in Oceanside, John Hermsen. He's the president of the Santa Margarita Gun Club on Pendleton. Get a hold of him and see what his advice is. PM me for his phone number as he didn't give me permission to post it here. I think I'm probably going to use him to install a bbl for me on an M14 build.

HTH

Bruce
 

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Or, you could save the SOCOM as is and purchase either a completed match rifle or purchase a receiver and collect the parts and have a match rifle built . That would leave you two and we all know that is better than one. IMHO
 

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White Oak Armament NM AR upper. Much cheaper than a SM or NM M1A. That's what I shoot XTC. I also shoot my SM, but can't top 750 with it. I also shoot 1000 YDS down at Ft. Benning and at ORSA a few times a year with my SM. That's fun and 175 FGMM will get it done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
At least you have the basics...unless the stock has been modified, it and all the parts except the front end (sights, etc.) can probably be used or modified. Better trigger job, gas cylinder work etc. A good quality NM bbl from a quality supplier, bedding, etc. Will make it into a good shooter. You will not compete with the tube guns, we know that. By the way, the JAE stock will not be legal for CMP matches but you can do whatever you want to make it into a match rifle. You may also want to consider a NM AR. You are already intimate with the basic style, it may be easier & less expensive than the 7.62format. Creedmor has had some excellent uppers lately.

I had contact (email) with a gentleman in Oceanside, John Hermsen. He's the president of the Santa Margarita Gun Club on Pendleton. Get a hold of him and see what his advice is. PM me for his phone number as he didn't give me permission to post it here. I think I'm probably going to use him to install a bbl for me on an M14 build.

HTH

Bruce
It's funny you mention John because I just went on a camping trip with him last month. He's done some work to my SOCOM as well. Small world. Not sure if you shot in the XTC match at wilcox on the 28th, but I was there too.

Anyways, I had spoke to him regarding the setup but I wasn't aware the JAE would eliminate the rifle from CMP. What characteristic about the stock is illegal?

The more I think about it, the more attractive a second rifle becomes. I can imagine trying to get MOA accuracy out of my SOCOM becoming a very expensive endeavor.
 

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CMP Rules (a bit long)

I may be 10 or 15 years behind, but when shooting for the distinguished badge, you can't pick and choose your stock. Has to conform. Match rifle rules are more liberal.

From the CMP Rulebook...

6.0 Firearms, Ammunition and Equipment
Competitors in National Trophy Rifle and Pistol Matches, EIC matches or other
CMP sanctioned matches must use rifles or pistols that comply with these rules.
6.1 General Service Rifle Rules
Service rifles are rifles that must be used in National Trophy Rifle Matches and
CMP-sanctioned Service Rifle Matches (Rule 2.0 and Rule 8.0). The following
general rules apply to all service rifles.
6.1.1 General Service Rifl e Requirements
All service rifl es must comply with these requirements:
(1) Trigger Pull: Must be at least 4.5 pounds.
(2) Stocks: Must be standard military-issue wood or synthetic material stocks
or similar stocks of commercial manufacture.
(3) Gas system: Must be fully operational.
(4) Front and rear sights: Must be of U.S. Army design (either service or
match). Front sights must have square-topped posts. Any modifications
to the front sight, rear sight or rear sight hood must be specifically authorized
in Rule 6.1.2.
6.1.2 Service Rifle Modifications
No modifications or alterations to the service rifle are permitted except modifi -
cations or alterations that are specifically permitted by these rules. Modifications
described in this rule do not apply to As-Issued Military Rifles defined in
Rule 6.3. Specific features or modifications that are permitted or prohibited on
Service Rifles are:
(1) No alteration or modification may change the external configuration of the
rifle.
(2) Rear sight windage and elevation adjustments may be modified to allow
finer adjustments.
(3) The dimensions of the rear sight aperture (internal diameter) and the front
sight post (width) may vary from standard military dimensions. The rear
sight hood diameter may not be longer than 0.70” or larger than 0.50”
in diameter. The rear sight aperture may have a fixed, non-adjustable
round, square or rectangular aperture insert. A corrective lens or multifocal
lens system may be inserted in the rear sight hood.
(4) Internal modifications may be made to improve functioning and accuracy.
A special match barrel may be installed. Synthetic materials may be applied
to the interior of the stock to improve the bedding. No modification
may interfere with the original functioning of the rifle and its safety devices.
22
(5) Stocks may have any color. Metals may have any finish. Metal components
may be either steel or aluminum alloy.
(6) The application of a manufacturer’s mark, service identification or other
similar branding is permitted and does not constitute a prohibited alteration
to the exterior dimensions of the rifl e.
(7) Permanent non-slip surface finishes may not be added to the rifl e, but
spray adhesives may be used on the rifle.
6.2 Specific Service Rifl e Rules
Competitors may use any of the following rifl es in the National Trophy Rifle Matches
and CMP sanctioned EIC Matches (Rule 2.0, 3.0 and 8.0).
6.2.1 U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1
The rifle must be a rifl e that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial
rifle of the same type and caliber. M1 rifles used in Service Rifle
matches (Rule 8.0) may be chambered for either the .30-06 or 7.62mm NATO
(.308 Win) cartridge.
6.2.2 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm NATO (.308 Win), M14
The rifle must be a rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial
rifle of the same type and caliber. M14 rifles must be chambered for
the 7.62mm cartridge and comply with the following specifi c requirements.
(1) Stock dimensions must be no more than 2 inches wide at a point immediately
to the rear of the front band, no more than 2.5 inches wide at the
front and rear of the receiver, and have a continuous taper from receiver
to front band. The width at the receiver may be carried through to the butt
plate.
(2) To improve operation, the spindle valve may be locked in the open position
and the gas cylinder plug may be altered by making an axial hole in
the center that is approximately 1/64” in diameter.
(3) The hinged butt plate may only be used in the folded position.
(4) The M1 Garand butt plate may be used as a substitute for the standard
M14 hinged butt plate.
(6) Magazine capacity may not exceed 20 rounds. All M14 or similar commercial
rifles must be used with full-length 10 or 20 round capacity magazines.
Magazines with a maximum capacity of 10 rounds may be used,
provided the length of the magazine box is the same as the standard
service 20-round magazine.
(7) Vented barrel extensions with the same external dimensions as the M14
flash suppressor, but without the bayonet lug, may be installed. A muzzle
brake designed to reduce recoil is not permitted.
(8) The rifle must comply with external and stock dimensions given in the
table below:

For the dimensional pictures and more...go to
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

Bruce
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I may be 10 or 15 years behind, but when shooting for the distinguished badge, you can't pick and choose your stock. Has to conform. Match rifle rules are more liberal.

From the CMP Rulebook...

6.0 Firearms, Ammunition and Equipment
Competitors in National Trophy Rifle and Pistol Matches, EIC matches or other
CMP sanctioned matches must use rifles or pistols that comply with these rules.
6.1 General Service Rifle Rules
Service rifles are rifles that must be used in National Trophy Rifle Matches and
CMP-sanctioned Service Rifle Matches (Rule 2.0 and Rule 8.0). The following
general rules apply to all service rifles.
6.1.1 General Service Rifl e Requirements
All service rifl es must comply with these requirements:
(1) Trigger Pull: Must be at least 4.5 pounds.
(2) Stocks: Must be standard military-issue wood or synthetic material stocks
or similar stocks of commercial manufacture.
(3) Gas system: Must be fully operational.
(4) Front and rear sights: Must be of U.S. Army design (either service or
match). Front sights must have square-topped posts. Any modifications
to the front sight, rear sight or rear sight hood must be specifically authorized
in Rule 6.1.2.
6.1.2 Service Rifle Modifications
No modifications or alterations to the service rifle are permitted except modifi -
cations or alterations that are specifically permitted by these rules. Modifications
described in this rule do not apply to As-Issued Military Rifles defined in
Rule 6.3. Specific features or modifications that are permitted or prohibited on
Service Rifles are:
(1) No alteration or modification may change the external configuration of the
rifle.
(2) Rear sight windage and elevation adjustments may be modified to allow
finer adjustments.
(3) The dimensions of the rear sight aperture (internal diameter) and the front
sight post (width) may vary from standard military dimensions. The rear
sight hood diameter may not be longer than 0.70” or larger than 0.50”
in diameter. The rear sight aperture may have a fixed, non-adjustable
round, square or rectangular aperture insert. A corrective lens or multifocal
lens system may be inserted in the rear sight hood.
(4) Internal modifications may be made to improve functioning and accuracy.
A special match barrel may be installed. Synthetic materials may be applied
to the interior of the stock to improve the bedding. No modification
may interfere with the original functioning of the rifle and its safety devices.
22
(5) Stocks may have any color. Metals may have any finish. Metal components
may be either steel or aluminum alloy.
(6) The application of a manufacturer’s mark, service identification or other
similar branding is permitted and does not constitute a prohibited alteration
to the exterior dimensions of the rifl e.
(7) Permanent non-slip surface finishes may not be added to the rifl e, but
spray adhesives may be used on the rifle.
6.2 Specific Service Rifl e Rules
Competitors may use any of the following rifl es in the National Trophy Rifle Matches
and CMP sanctioned EIC Matches (Rule 2.0, 3.0 and 8.0).
6.2.1 U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1
The rifle must be a rifl e that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial
rifle of the same type and caliber. M1 rifles used in Service Rifle
matches (Rule 8.0) may be chambered for either the .30-06 or 7.62mm NATO
(.308 Win) cartridge.
6.2.2 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm NATO (.308 Win), M14
The rifle must be a rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial
rifle of the same type and caliber. M14 rifles must be chambered for
the 7.62mm cartridge and comply with the following specifi c requirements.
(1) Stock dimensions must be no more than 2 inches wide at a point immediately
to the rear of the front band, no more than 2.5 inches wide at the
front and rear of the receiver, and have a continuous taper from receiver
to front band. The width at the receiver may be carried through to the butt
plate.
(2) To improve operation, the spindle valve may be locked in the open position
and the gas cylinder plug may be altered by making an axial hole in
the center that is approximately 1/64” in diameter.
(3) The hinged butt plate may only be used in the folded position.
(4) The M1 Garand butt plate may be used as a substitute for the standard
M14 hinged butt plate.
(6) Magazine capacity may not exceed 20 rounds. All M14 or similar commercial
rifles must be used with full-length 10 or 20 round capacity magazines.
Magazines with a maximum capacity of 10 rounds may be used,
provided the length of the magazine box is the same as the standard
service 20-round magazine.
(7) Vented barrel extensions with the same external dimensions as the M14
flash suppressor, but without the bayonet lug, may be installed. A muzzle
brake designed to reduce recoil is not permitted.
(8) The rifle must comply with external and stock dimensions given in the
table below:

For the dimensional pictures and more...go to
http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

Bruce
I always figured the socom was already disqualified as a service rifle because of the super short barrel. Just assumed I was shooting a match rifle. I'm pretty new to the competitive scene if it's not blatantly obvious.

If you replace the barrel drop me a line, I might be interested in it. Brian
I'll keep you in mind.
 

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I am in the same boat... Im in iraq right now... so all i can do is ponder what to do to my socom when i get home... any ways.... i was wondering about who makes heavy nm barrels for socom 16... ive done some research on adding the usual nm front sight post and rear sight. getting higher quality parts basicly.... but the cost i see prety much puts me in the opinion that it would be easier to buy an old m1a and slowly put all the money into that.... question for canecorso... how far out(range) could you reach accurately with the socom 16? i have not been able to take mine out to that long of a range...
 

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I would keep the SOCOM as is, and get another rifle for match shooting.

I would also recommend you try to shoot a good Match M1-A, and a good Match AR 15, in a match, before you buy Your Match Rifle.

I have shot both quite a bit in Service Rifle Matches. [I enjoy shooting the Garand Most of all, I just like the "ping" of the ejecting clip].

And as much as I like the 308/7.62 as a cartridge, I will say that in todays world, the AR 15, properly prepared, with good ammo, is more competitive, and much cheaper to compete with, as well.

It is much easier on your body, also.

Remember, this is Target shooting, the only thing that matters is punching holes in paper, close together in the right spot.

There are no Tactical/Combat considerations.
 

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The SOCOM is quite legal for NRA matches, shooting in the match rifle class. If he's shooting against Tubb guns, then he's likely not shooting a CMP match.

For the cost of a Krieger + JAE stock, you're nearly halfway to the price of a loaded model M1A. Buying another M1A would likely be the best route, if you plan on shooting the M1A competitively. You then have a solid platform should you ever want to have the rifle accurized even further.
 

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upgraded socom barrel

I am in the same boat... Im in iraq right now... so all i can do is ponder what to do to my socom when i get home... any ways.... i was wondering about who makes heavy nm barrels for socom 16... ive done some research on adding the usual nm front sight post and rear sight. getting higher quality parts basicly.... but the cost i see prety much puts me in the opinion that it would be easier to buy an old m1a and slowly put all the money into that.... question for canecorso... how far out(range) could you reach accurately with the socom 16? i have not been able to take mine out to that long of a range...
Even though its not on their site smith enterprise offers a upgraded medium weight 16 in socom barrel, ad their socom kit and plug you have a graetly upgraded socom m1a, if you want more accuracy exchange the fortex for the coast guard brake to stabilize you shots even more, give andy a call he will tell you all about it
 

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You could upgrade your socom through springfield for about this:

NM Medium Wt Barrel installed $239 (krieger heavy chrome moly $522 installed or douglas heavy Chrome moly $355)

Trigger Job $35

Walnut Stock $235

Glass Bedding $175 (includes unitized Gas System and NM oprod Spring guide)

NM Sight kit $161.00

To save some money you could find a decent used stock and have it glass bedded.

You would need to adda couple other parts like the gas lock and Flash Suppressor but those could also be purchased used to save some money.

After having the above done you would have a National Match Rifle for quite a bit less than the cost of a new rifle.
 
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