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Homeowner was exercising his Second Amendment right to defend himself, sheriff says
A teen was facing charges for a would-be armed home invasion robbery in Florida in which his two accomplices were shot and killed and he was wounded, authorities said.
The person who shot them was the homeowner victim who had a gun and used it to defend himself when he encountered the intruders in his home in Wesley Chapel shortly before 1 a.m. Friday, Pasco County Sheriff Chris Nocco said.
“The victim in this case was exercising his Second Amendment right to protect himself in his home,” Nocco said.

Luis Casado, 21, and Khyle Durham, 21, were shot as they walked down a narrow hallway toward the homeowner, the sheriff said. They had guns and covered their faces with black masks.
Jeremiah Trammel, 19, was shot after Casado and Durham went down, Nocco said. He said he ran out of the house as the homeowner went to get another gun to replace the one he had because it jammed.
Nocco said Trammel didn't get far. A neighbor with a gun caught him and then held him until deputies arrived.
Trammel was admitted to a hospital for treatment of the gunshot wound.

Nocco said Casado and Durham were “extremely violent” criminals. He said Trammel had a previous arrest for battery and other charges.
He said the shooting happened after the homeowner heard glass shatter and grabbed a gun. He was home alone playing video games.
The sheriff said the homeowner believes he may have been targeted because of his gun collection, which he has displayed on social media.
The investigation also revealed that the homeowner had some sort of relationship with Trammel, Casado and Durham that involved “some type of known entity,” Nocco said.

Trammel was charged with home invasion robbery, Fox 35 Orlando reported. He was also charged with murder for the deaths of Casado and Durham during the commission of another crime.
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"He was also charged with murder for the deaths of Casado and Durham during the commission of another crime."

This part confuses me.
 
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That seems egregious. Yeah whatever they're criminals. Why pervert our sacred system just to increase punishment. That only serves to further carve the good guy/bad guy narrative into society's hide. We are supposed to be unafraid. We're not supposed to be getting revenge. Only justice. It's the king that breaks your body.
 

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If things keep going the way they are right now, and likely get worse in the near future, you guys will take a different view of what seems egregious now. I dont.
If you dont have your charges against these animals stacked up like cord wood, they dont ever serve any real time and are back out on the street to do it again! When lives are lost while YOU are in the commission of a felony, obviously with intent here, as they themselves were armed: what do you think is the remedy exactly? There is only one real remedy for these creeps, the death penalty!
 

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Still isn't factual murder. I'm not arguing the issue. I'm arguing the cause of the charge laid. I can see these guys were wrong. Duh. I just don't like living with inanity. Give me the facts and nothing else. In my constitutional law classes and my childhood I learned to be proud of a system that doesn't deceive. Insult does not injury make. I think one night living like other half would cure most people of the death to criminals ideology.
 
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Still isn't factual murder.
It actually is. The guy that lived should've been smart enough to talk them out of doing it, people have a responsibility to do what's right both ethically and in the eyes of the law. By any of them not taking responsibility to do what's right and derail the crime, they are directly responsible for the others being killed, and that's it. The home owner would not have had to shoot if one of them persuaded the others not to do felonies that endangered an innocent life. You will find this out further in your law class, they all had a duty to stop it, and because they didn't, the surviving criminals are culpable and completely bear the burden of the murders, there's NO deceit there..

I don't know where the hell this thinking comes from by young people, but this is why our country is going to hell in a handbasket. :mad:
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I agree with Brian. Choices were made here, conscious choices, to act in a criminal way. Were they influenced by their place in life, their upbringing? Possibly, maybe even likely, but it’s the disrespect for the law and the obvious disrespect for authority that we see everywhere today that’s drives the insanity were seeing in the streets. That and, the willingness of some elected officials to allow it to continue unabated.
 

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sure. agree to disagree. the law is all in the interpretation. Where I personally don't think there is any value to charging him with murder I can see how it could be argued that he is at least partially responsible. I guess if you want to ensure he stays in jail, but that amounts to gaming the system. I think just behind professional violent criminals the next out of control group on our hands are prosecutors. Any faction with limitless potential for power is by nature unAmerican. we need to do some check and balance work there. I suppose that I fall on the side of "if one person is falsely imprisoned,then we need to reboot the system" instead of a dragnet and kill all the scumbags sort of model where we sacrifice people to the flames of revenge for security. little off topic but you catch my drift.
 
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This happened pretty close to home. To be clear, the homeowner was not charged according to Sheriff Nocco, it was the perps charged for the murder of their accomplice during the commission of a crime...Things are getting more violent around here with each passing day, as a single guy living at home alone when my girlfriends are mostly away at work this does worry me, and means I gotta keep something within reach at all times should they come in on me.
 

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I've an arsenal in the bedroom, much to my wife's (sometimes) discomfort. If I get up to investigate a noise, or check the doors/windows, I am always armed. Too much shenanigans going down in our county as of late.
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I don't know where the hell this thinking comes from by young people, but this is why our country is going to hell in a handbasket. :mad:
m14brian
Your explanation makes sense, and thank you for that, but I can see why it seems a bit roundabout not having the benefit of that explanation. On the face of it, it seems weird, but I see the logic.

As for stacking up charges and having the punishment dismissed, I think that's an entire different kind of dysfunctional weirdness, and pretty prevalent universally. If getting 'tough on crime' is simply making punishments great so that you can set them aside, what sense does that make? It just gives people the impression that the laws don't matter, because, well...

All that being said, the best correctional action we can take is before it hits the correctional system, because the correctional system doesn't seem to be cutting it, only temporary storage of a problem that grows from roots offsite of the facilities. Of course, you dump the fertilizer back on those roots, and...

Kids, parents, families, communities, that's where things can possibly go right, and if they are going right, there's less to go wrong. An individual with a good foundation doesn't break into houses in the middle of the night, and it's not because they're worried about being charged with murder if their friends die, it's because they know it's wrong, and it's stupid, and even if they could get away with it, they still wouldn't do it. If you can't fix that, the rest is just triage, tragedy, and a sad waste.

If I had a crystal ball I'd let you know what I see, but I don't, so I won't pretend that I do. But doing more of the same seems like not much of a fantastic recipe.
 

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sure. agree to disagree. the law is all in the interpretation. Where I personally don't think there is any value to charging him with murder I can see how it could be argued that he is at least partially responsible. I guess if you want to ensure he stays in jail, but that amounts to gaming the system. I think just behind professional violent criminals the next out of control group on our hands are prosecutors. Any faction with limitless potential for power is by nature unAmerican. we need to do some check and balance work there. I suppose that I fall on the side of "if one person is falsely imprisoned,then we need to reboot the system" instead of a dragnet and kill all the scumbags sort of model where we sacrifice people to the flames of revenge for security. little off topic but you catch my drift.
I can agree to disagree and no hard feelings, it's just discussion. On another note, no disrespect but I hope you are not going into law, especially as a prosecutor, and I mean that not to put you down, but your theory of letting everyone off and benefit of the doubt for violent crimes is completely bad for society, it creates a chain of victims that doesn't stop.

Let me give you one example. There was a guy in our town who almost killed a co-worker before I knew him. He and a couple of scumbags went to my co-worker's house under the guise of buying car parts, met up and my co-worker said come on follow me and led them to the back of the property to look at cars and parts. The next thing he said he knew his head felt like it was the size of a basketball and he was being loaded into an ambulance. They were charged with many crimes including attempted murder. He got off on some plea deal with a misdemeanor, it almost cost my co-worker his life. Did he learn a lesson. Hell NO.

A couple years later after more crimes he didn't go to jail for, he ended up kicking in the door of a friend of mine with 2 other scum, because of a problem that he had with her boyfriend, chased her into her bedroom and murdered her, cut her throat in front of her 6 year old daughter and baby. They all left, went to his house, cleaned up and as a matter of court record said that b!+ch deserved it, telling the story to his wife at the time.

So, if he would have had "charges piled on" not being able to plea bargain and the prosecutor would have been "gaming the system", for all of the felonies of deadly assault, and attempted murder and leaving my co-worker to die alone out in the desert heat after being hit in the head repeatedly with a lead pipe and stealing a car while he was dying in his driveway, that piece of crap would have gone to prison for a long time, and not been out in society to kill my friend, who he actually ramped his crimes up and did successfully kill. Going easy on violent felons is bull crap and a disgrace. Maybe for petty theft, but not for killing or attempting to kill in cold blood, every one that does those crimes should fry in the electric chair. The scum that did this to 2 good people I know is enjoying cable TV in prison and living responsibility free exhausting his appeals while we take care of his worthless ass, while my friend is dead.

The people that were in the house at the time of her door getting kicked in, I think 3 ran for help, they are all scarred for life, her boyfriend is messed up and doesn't function properly and he and her daughter has to live with what happened and are severely affected for the rest of their life because some scum wasn't convicted properly, because of some lenient prosecutor and lenient judge. This happens across the country all the time...
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"I can agree to disagree and no hard feelings, it's just discussion"

first, I'm glad for that. One of the scarier aspects of the political environment right now is how everyone seems to hate each other. Luckily I don't consider myself liberal or conservative whatsoever so I'm still capable of peaceful discource. Not being entrenched gives me a flexibility to consider more paths. I am considering going into law. And I never once suggested that the dude should spend less than the rest of his life in jail. I'm not against the death penalty and I'm not interested in leniency. I am however a 30 something dude who has lived wild life, seen a lot, and have had my life permanently changed by violent assault at a young age. Meaning that I am ruled by multiple perspectives. You better believe I want justice. That's why I'm not interested in anything less than the absolute truth being weaponized for even a micro second. I don't think you should assume that im some kind of bleeding heart because of that. I'm actually much more of angry metal head. But I read and read and have a pretty good handle of the history of criminal justice in this country. It's not pretty. The only reason I started this argument was because Im compelled to point my finger at absurdity. But like I said I see the argument. Anyway you'll never see me in the prosecutors chair. More likely helping at wrangling them back down to the dirty earth with the rest of us while singing god bless America.
 

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m14brian, I'm really sorry about your friends. That blows. That he didn't spend at least a decade of hard labor, or whatever is appropriate the first time is mind-boggling. It's hard to imagine what's going on inside the head of whoever would let that happen. I can speculate on possible bleeding heart good intentions, or misalignments of justice and personal political motivation, but on a very basic level, aside from the debatable aspects of idiosyncrasies and subtle details, just like a public defender or a criminal defense lawyer, a prosecutor, and a judge, should simply do their job. Neglecting that duty seems, well, criminal.

I hope that guy finds his way into a wood chipper running in ultra-slow mode.
 

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have had my life permanently changed by violent assault at a young age. Meaning that I am ruled by multiple perspectives. I'm actually much more of angry metal head.
We have a lot in common it appears, I'm an angry metalhead too just a middle aged one, sorry for being hard on ya, after reading you want justice and protecting the absolute truth I can see I assumed where I shouldn't have, it just looks like you are giving them way too much of a pass in your comments, and I have seen too many people get off way too easy and go on to hurt others afterward. I have been on both sides of the aisle, wrongfully accused and repeatedly victimized beyond my control, I guess being hurt by others has stuck with me more than remembering what it's like to be wrongfully accused so for me I want to fry 'em all. but, that being said, I am honestly for the truth and justice going to right way whichever that is. I don't like seeing scum getting off on technicalities, and I don't like a guy getting railroaded on circumstantial evidence or for minor statutory "crimes" where there's no real victim other than breaking some "law" on the books. But in my experience, those that are actually innocent are a small percentage of those that say they are.
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"I have been on both sides of the aisle, wrongfully accused and repeatedly victimized beyond my control, I guess being hurt by others has stuck with me more than remembering what it's like to be wrongfully accused so for me I want to fry 'em all. but, that being said, I am honestly for the truth and justice going the right way whichever that is."

I should quote the whole post. Well said. Thanks for getting back. As bad as the way things are I believe we can't lose our sense of personal strength or our compassion. Not easy. They don't seem compatible at times. But I think they are the difference between people and the system. I think our American culture is supposed to be strength and compassion in equal, massive measure.
 
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