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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have been doing some reading on scopes, heres what i have gleaned so far from my small amount of knowledge you guys tell me if this stacks up you all know more then i do. Basically I'm talking about military scopes here, not so much hunting but I'm sure it all applies.


Ok fixes scopes are more DURABLE and it seems a lot of people don't use the variable capabilities that much anyway. Also i went to a .22 CMP shoot and was talking to some of the people their. One guy had a night force said it was the bees knees because they track so incredibly well. Some of the other scopes don't such as leopolds etc. I guess what he meant is that when you move all those dials and stuff that they don't always move exactly they are suppose to.

Fixed power has none of those problems am it right? I have heard people say that the SS fixed powers do everything you need them to do with good optical quality.

OH YAH and how does parallax affect fixed vs variable.

What sayeth you. on tall this, Me idk much about this topic. If you explain something to me understand that idk what your talking about lol


thanks fellas.
 

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If you take the time to go to Sniper 101 site and read his comments on optics you will be very well informed. A list of optics used by the World's military units does include some variable scopes, most are fixed power and no more than 10X. Reasons, simplicity, ruggedness, and ease of training for the operator. Would not discount a Leupold for it is an excellent optic for the money spent. Yes, you can buy better scopes for a specific purpose, but very few folks need or know how to properly put one to it's intended purpose. The SWFA for the money spent is an excellent choice, me, I prefer the Leupold MK 4 10x but that is just me.
 

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I believe that tracking refers to how well the scopes adjustments work when performing a box test. Does it return to the same POI? That applies to fixed power as well as variable power optics. As stated above, fixed power = less lenses, so less expensive to make, and can be more rugged.
 

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A consideration about fixed versus variable is the shooting postions you'll be using.
When prone or benched, a higher power is usually preferred.
If shooting standing or sitting, then a lower power is typically used to reduce the amount of annoying movement. Or for obtaining a larger field-of-view around the target.

Parallax concerns are about the same for both. And remember that parallax problems only happen when your eye position isn't inline with the center axis of the scope.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
 

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I believe that tracking refers to how well the scopes adjustments work when performing a box test. Does it return to the same POI? That applies to fixed power as well as variable power optics. As stated above, fixed power = less lenses, so less expensive to make, and can be more rugged.

Not necessarily less lenses, a Burris Scout 2.75X scope has the same amount of lenses as as the Fullfield II 3x9. It's the simple fact that the lenses are in fixed positions, so there aren't as many variables such as an erector lens getting out of alignment.

Back to the topic...

Modern, QUALITY rifle scopes are as reliable as fixed power scopes. Box testing an optic is a good test, but when the turrets are adjusted, does each click actually move the reticle the actual click value of the scope throughout the functional range of adjustment? Does it return to zero every time? If the scope has a calibrated reticle, does it match the turrets? Does the variable power scope have a front focal plane reticle? Is the reticle calibrated correctly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not necessarily less lenses, a Burris Scout 2.75X scope has the same amount of lenses as as the Fullfield II 3x9. It's the simple fact that the lenses are in fixed positions, so there aren't as many variables such as an erector lens getting out of alignment.

Back to the topic...

Modern, QUALITY rifle scopes are as reliable as fixed power scopes. Box testing an optic is a good test, but when the turrets are adjusted, does each click actually move the reticle the actual click value of the scope throughout the functional range of adjustment? Does it return to zero every time? If the scope has a calibrated reticle, does it match the turrets? Does the variable power scope have a front focal plane reticle? Is the reticle calibrated correctly?
Thanks man so are you saying its all about calibration? how much more is the variable power used over a fixed?
 

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I change my 3-18x magnification range throughout a shooting session or match. Depends on range, position, and weather. Why limit yourself to a fixed power optic? Of course it depends on use. I have an M14 type rifle with a 2.75x Scout scope on it, but that rifle is an 18.5" Scout rifle. My hunting rifle has a 4-16x PST on it (should have bought an FFP reticle).

As far as calibration, adjustment click values are very important, especially if you are moving your turrets for different distances or wind. Reticle calibration is important as well for holdovers. Ballistic reticles are virtually useless for a number of reasons such as changing environment, they tend to be caliber and velocity specific, etc. Get a scope with a mildot or hash style reticle that matches the turret adjustments, ie. miliradian reticle/miliradian turrets or MOA/MOA. A reticle in a second focal plane (SFP) scope is only calibrated correctly at a specific magnification. Front focal plane (FFP) reticles are calibrated throughout the entire magnification range of the optic.

Verify your scope tracking, this video is a good example of virtually perfect tracking, as well as reticle calibration.


[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2VVOfnirFc&feature=youtu.be[/ame]
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I change my 3-18x magnification range throughout a shooting session or match. Depends on range, position, and weather. Why limit yourself to a fixed power optic? Of course it depends on use. I have an M14 type rifle with a 2.75x Scout scope on it, but that rifle is an 18.5" Scout rifle. My hunting rifle has a 4-16x PST on it (should have bought an FFP reticle).

As far as calibration, adjustment click values are very important, especially if you are moving your turrets for different distances or wind. Reticle calibration is important as well for holdovers. Ballistic reticles are virtually useless for a number of reasons such as changing environment, they tend to be caliber and velocity specific, etc. Get a scope with a mildot or hash style reticle that matches the turret adjustments, ie. miliradian reticle/miliradian turrets or MOA/MOA. A reticle in a second focal plane (SFP) scope is only calibrated correctly at a specific magnification. Front focal plane (FFP) reticles are calibrated throughout the entire magnification range of the optic.

Verify your scope tracking, this video is a good example of virtually perfect tracking, as well as reticle calibration.


DO fixed powers track????



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f2VVOfnirFc&feature=youtu.be

What kind of competition do you do with your scope set up like that sounds pretty cool. What would be a good variable power scope that is good and tracks well or is that a loaded quesiont? Do fixed powers track
 

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what do you plan to do with a scope target shoot or hunt ? a variable power can be used for either the same can be said for a fixed power but trying to get lined up on a deer at 25 yds with a fixed power 10x or 12x is gonna be a bit much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
what do you plan to do with a scope target shoot or hunt ? a variable power can be used for either the same can be said for a fixed power but trying to get lined up on a deer at 25 yds with a fixed power 10x or 12x is gonna be a bit much.
Less then 400 meters ill use the sights? does that make sense, i have been competing in high-power.
 

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I shoot some local PRS (Precision Rifle Series) style matches. Ranges vary anywhere from under 100 yards to past 900 yds, variable terrain, variable elevation.

I started with a Vortex Viper PST 4-16, second focal plane. I moved on to a Steiner Military 4-16x50, which is a fantastic optic. And now have a Vortex Razor gen2 3-18x50. I have that on my new match rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.


The Vortex Viper line is a good starting place, so is the Burris XTR2 line. Used Steiner Military 4-16's can be had for around $1000.

Isthe scope goong on a bolt gun or M1A, or something else?
 

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I shoot some local PRS (Precision Rifle Series) style matches. Ranges vary anywhere from under 100 yards to past 900 yds, variable terrain, variable elevation.

I started with a Vortex Viper PST 4-16, second focal plane. I moved on to a Steiner Military 4-16x50, which is a fantastic optic. And now have a Vortex Razor gen2 3-18x50. I have that on my new match rifle chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor.


The Vortex Viper line is a good starting place, so is the Burris XTR2 line. Used Steiner Military 4-16's can be had for around $1000.

Isthe scope goong on a bolt gun or M1A, or something else?

Thats cool how does a match work does anyone use 308s? it going on a m1a very cool I'm interested in all this CENSOREDGI right now
 

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There is a seperate 308 class now, and nobody uses an M1a. I saw one once, and he quickly realized is error. Watch some YouTube videos on PRS matches, that'll let you see what it's about. I personally like the practical long range matches more than PRS, as they're more realistic and not as gamey like 3-Gun.
 

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If you take the time to go to Sniper 101 site and read his comments on optics you will be very well informed. A list of optics used by the World's military units does include some variable scopes, most are fixed power and no more than 10X. Reasons, simplicity, ruggedness, and ease of training for the operator. Would not discount a Leupold for it is an excellent optic for the money spent. Yes, you can buy better scopes for a specific purpose, but very few folks need or know how to properly put one to it's intended purpose. The SWFA for the money spent is an excellent choice, me, I prefer the Leupold MK 4 10x but that is just me.
Good points.

My M1A and 700 have Leupold MK4 M3 10x and my 50 BMG rifles have Leupold MK4 16x (16x for the 140 min of elevation) none of them have let me down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
There is a seperate 308 class now, and nobody uses an M1a. I saw one once, and he quickly realized is error. Watch some YouTube videos on PRS matches, that'll let you see what it's about. I personally like the practical long range matches more than PRS, as they're more realistic and not as gamey like 3-Gun.
What is wrong with the M1A what about other semi auto 308s, also why is the M1a in those style of matches? How do i find out about PRS competitions? in my state New Mexico
 

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The M1A isn't a good choice for those kind of matches because it doesn't hold accuracy well enough to be competitive. I'm not saying you can't shoot one, but you'll be at a disadvantage from the start. Your POI will change as the barrel heats up throughout the stage. There are AR10 type rifles in 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor, or even 243. They seem to work OK, but the vast majority of rifles are Remington 700 footprint bolt actions.

Snipershide forum would be a good place to find PRS matches in your area. Also the PRS website. I know there are long range matches at the Whittington center in Raton, NM. And I think there are matches in Pueblo, CO as well.
 
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