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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, 2847 here

Still green to the forums but I thought this would be a good place to post shots at 100 yards for the first time since getting the weapon (about 5 days ago). I know there is improvement to be made but overall I am happy with what I got. I shot first at 25 yrds just to get an idea and though everything was off, the groups were nice and tight.

Then I went back to 100 yrd and shot 2 groups, first one not so impressive but after adjustments I hit where I thought was pretty okay for a stock rifle.





First group high to the left, second group in middle with a stray shot that I knew was to the right from pulling the rifle too much.



Second shot zoomed in.


...So what do you guys think? Is this okay for an out of the box rifle? I noticed my rear sight up/down is loose and I'm a little worried about that.. it clicks...if I push on it and turn. I see two screws on either side but I don't know if that is the right way to tighten the thing.. Also I did notice there is a little wiggle on my (gas piston thinigie?) on the front end.

Any feedback is very welcomed and I would love to hear what people recommend to pull the group in maybe just a little tighter. Overall i am happy with the performance to start.

I look forward to any help available, thanks Gents! DI2
 

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Wiggle (front/back movement) from the gas cylinder? If so, your rifle will definitely need to be shimmed.

When I first got my Standard M1A, I put the action into a USGI fiberglass and my groups really opened up. It was due the weak foreend and me being stupid by squeezing the handguard and stock foreend together. This caused some misalignment with the front band and poor stock support.

Even after shimming my gas cylinder, my shot groups were still pretty big. I put her back into wood and my groups got noticeably tighter. I will keep both her and my JRA in wood...until I hear some reports about dtandy's Carbon Fiber stocks.

Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Wiggle (front/back movement) from the gas cylinder? If so, your rifle will definitely need to be shimmed.

When I first got my Standard M1A, I put the action into a USGI fiberglass and my groups really opened up. It was due the weak foreend and me being stupid by squeezing the handguard and stock foreend together. This caused some misalignment with the front band and poor stock support.

Even after shimming my gas cylinder, my shot groups were still pretty big. I put her back into wood and my groups got noticeably tighter. I will keep both her and my JRA in wood...until I hear some reports about dtandy's Carbon Fiber stocks.

Good luck.
Thank you sir. Yes I already have a wood stock on the way, these shots were taken with the black stock (composite? I have no idea what its made of) that came with the rifle. can't wait to try again with the wood stock.
 

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Did you buy some shims as well? There's a forum member here who sells them or you can get them from Brownells. To install them, you'll need a small Allen wrench (7/64"? Can't remember) to remove the castle nut set screw, castle nut pliers, and a 3/8" wrench or Combo Tool to remove the gas plug.

Also should add, sometimes the gas plug can back out on you. It happened to me last time I went shooting and didn't realize it until I was done. My groups were pretty small but inconsistent, I was trying to zero a new scope and needless to say, it didn't get done.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have not bought shims as well but wouldn't I need feeler gauges? Or just buy a pack of 3 and follow the tonyben instructions on how to install them?

I really want the wood stock first because a lot of people tell me it will help with inital accuracy. Thank you for the tool advice to take apart the gas plug.. I have NO idea how it works.
 

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The shim set from Brownells has three different thicknesses, the one from the forum member here has five I believe.

I have the Brownells one, I just tested different combos of thicknesses to get the proper timing of the cylinder lock, should start getting tight at the 5:30 position from the muzzle end.

You may also want to get a gas cylinder wrench, both Sadlak and Battle Arms Development make one. I like the BAD T-4 as it had two different sizes, one for the regular/USGI gas cylinder and one for the SEI Gas Lock Front Sight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The shim set from Brownells has three different thicknesses, the one from the forum member here has five I believe.

I have the Brownells one, I just tested different combos of thicknesses to get the proper timing of the cylinder lock, should start getting tight at the 5:30 position from the muzzle end.

You may also want to get a gas cylinder wrench, both Sadlak and Battle Arms Development make one. I like the BAD T-4 as it had two different sizes, one for the regular/USGI gas cylinder and one for the SEI Gas Lock Front Sight.

I bought the G.I. wrench that can take the torque off of the gas plug but I don't have the wrench that fits around the barrel and gas plug. Once I get the wood stock I will give it another chance at 100yrd and if it is still too loose on the groups, I will go ahead and get the shims.

... I have also heard that the multi tool that comes with cleaning kits may not even be the best choice for removing the gas system... any alternatives?
 

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A 3/8" closed end wrench works great. I used to use a socket wrench but not anymore, you could over tighten the gas plug and possibly strip/deform the threads.
 

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I bought the G.I. wrench that can take the torque off of the gas plug but I don't have the wrench that fits around the barrel and gas plug. Once I get the wood stock I will give it another chance at 100yrd and if it is still too loose on the groups, I will go ahead and get the shims.

... I have also heard that the multi tool that comes with cleaning kits may not even be the best choice for removing the gas system... any alternatives?
Until I bought my gas cylinder wrench, I just used a large crescent wrench (padded with a rag) to hold my gas cylinder while removing or installing the gas plug. The idea being you aren't putting all that torque on the gas cylinder and in turn the splines on your barrel...at least thats how I understood it.

I always take tools with me to the range. Allen wrench, homemade castle nut pliers, gas cyl. wrench, and a 3/8" flare nut wrench. (Its like a cross between a box end and open end wrench if you don't know what Im talking about....less likely to round off fittings/nuts) I also keep my GI Multi tool in the buttstock.
 

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Here's a link to the Sadlak cleaning tools and GC wrench. Mike is a sponsor here on the site, is one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet and is a perfectionist when it comes to his products. I highly recommend everything he makes. Check out his NM rod guide while you peruse his site. That's one upgrade that won't cost an arm and a leg and will noticeably smooth out your action. Both my M1As have it.

http://sadlak.com/si_tools.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Here's a link to the Sadlak cleaning tools and GC wrench. Mike is a sponsor here on the site, is one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet and is a perfectionist when it comes to his products. I highly recommend everything he makes. Check out his NM rod guide while you peruse his site. That's one upgrade that won't cost an arm and a leg and will noticeably smooth out your action. Both my M1As have it.

http://sadlak.com/si_tools.html

Is the rod guide you speak of a spring guide? I apologize because I do not know the parts name in the m1a just yet. Still learning.
 

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Is the rod guide you speak of a spring guide? I apologize because I do not know the parts name in the m1a just yet. Still learning.
Guide rod for the operating rod spring, yes.

This may help. GI2 http://m14forum.com/reference/16084...ut-m14-parts-identification-nomenclature.html

Theres a lot to learn, part of the fun for me though. Just about everything you can think of has been covered in some respect it seems. I've spent hours so far, just typing things into the search bar. GI1
 

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The more important question..... how did you like shooting the rifle?

As a full on M14/M1A noob myself..... my first few targets were woefully disappointing. I had already shimmed the gas cylinder and tweaked a few other minor things before I even fired the rifle though. With more rounds down range, things got a little better. I had a NM front sight but a standard rear aperture from the factory it seems. Swapped in a Kreiger NM aperture and things got better still. Sight picture was just that much better for me personally. "Depth of field" I think they call it? Anyways... if you keep shooting, I think you'll see those groups tighten up a bit all on their own.

They really are just a joy to shoot. GI1

I JUST started reloading too, and groups got better still with my reloads. Just more consistent, which of course highlighted the errors I was creating with my form. Practice practice practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The more important question..... how did you like shooting the rifle?

As a full on M14/M1A noob myself..... my first few targets were woefully disappointing. I had already shimmed the gas cylinder and tweaked a few other minor things before I even fired the rifle though. With more rounds down range, things got a little better. I had a NM front sight but a standard rear aperture from the factory it seems. Swapped in a Kreiger NM aperture and things got better still. Sight picture was just that much better for me personally. "Depth of field" I think they call it? Anyways... if you keep shooting, I think you'll see those groups tighten up a bit all on their own.

They really are just a joy to shoot. GI1

I JUST started reloading too, and groups got better still with my reloads. Just more consistent, which of course highlighted the errors I was creating with my form. Practice practice practice.
Hell I was happy with that second group lol. I love the rifle the more I look at it and feel it...then I look over at my AR and wonder why in the hell do I still have it? lol The rifle is a joy all around and I am just anxiously awaiting my wood stock to come in so I can admire it more lol.

That reminds me.. my rear sight is loose.. the up/down setting doesnt "click" unless I push it and turn it.. is this just crappy SA sights?
 

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It may be just loose. Can you physically push down the rear apperature with your thumb with a bit of pressure, you shouldn't be able to do that. If you can then try tightening it to start. You'll need two screwdrivers, one that fits each side of the rear sight. Turn the smaller one, windage side, a click or two clockwise to see if that helps. If it doesn't help than the next step is t try a new rear sight cover which is actually a spring or disassemble and look at the pinion and the serrations in the apperature. If you can't figure it out, just call Springfield, assuming this is a SAI rifle, and they'll fix it for free. HTH

PS a good reference boos is "The M14 Owners Guide and match conditioning" by Scott Duff. Available off his website.
 

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Anyways... if you keep shooting, I think you'll see those groups tighten up a bit all on their own.
Bullets were the best thing to buy when I got mine. My rifle is still 100% the way it left the factory, no shims, no nothing.

I hate to say how long it took me get to a point where I wasn't holding the rifle back with iron sights at 100 yards. It's a good thing I bought a lot of bullets back then (it was cheap like gas) because I used almost all of them getting to a point where I could even consider shooting 1 1/2 groups.

It should take you a lot less time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It may be just loose. Can you physically push down the rear apperature with your thumb with a bit of pressure, you shouldn't be able to do that. If you can then try tightening it to start. You'll need two screwdrivers, one that fits each side of the rear sight. Turn the smaller one, windage side, a click or two clockwise to see if that helps. If it doesn't help than the next step is t try a new rear sight cover which is actually a spring or disassemble and look at the pinion and the serrations in the apperature. If you can't figure it out, just call Springfield, assuming this is a SAI rifle, and they'll fix it for free. HTH

PS a good reference boos is "The M14 Owners Guide and match conditioning" by Scott Duff. Available off his website.
Oh lord...

I can push and pull the sight with my fingers no problem.. So I'm going to try and tighten it and yes it is a SAI Rifle, so if this fails I will call them.
 

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I noticed my rear sight up/down is loose and I'm a little worried about that.. it clicks...if I push on it and turn. I see two screws on either side but I don't know if that is the right way to tighten the thing..
A couple weeks ago at the range, my shots started stringing down. It took me a few shots to figure out that seventeen years after I zeroed it, my elevation pinion came loose and was allowing the aperture to sink a little lower with each shot.

Getting it set up again is a piece of cake. You're on, tonyben...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoK9Zxk38_U&list=UUa9vbzHvKPvslKC2hCGjG0A[/ame]
 
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