[CRASH -CAF-]

I have an M1A Scout with an ARMS#18 mount installed, that I've morphed into what I call the "M14 Carbine." It has a number of Smith Enterprises parts, and sits in an VLTOR M14 Modstock, with a short Picatinny rail attached under the forearm of the stock.

I had an Aimpoint Micro T-1 installed that fit well with LaRue's LT661 (short) QD mounting base, but I recently started leaning toward the reticle of the EOTech sights. Quick-disconnect was required because co-witnessing the iron sights on an M1A is impossible. I liked the XPS and EXPS line of sights because they use 123 batteries which, while more expensive than AA's, provide compatability with my flashlight batteries. With these things in mind, my final consideration was height vs. location of controls - the EXPS, with its factory QD mounting system, puts the sight window about 3/8" higher than the XPS, but has its controls on the side of the unit rather than the back. Wanting the option to mount a magnifier behind the EOTech, I decided on the side controls of the EXPS and recently purchased one.

Imagine my bewilderment at not being able to attach the EXPS to the ARMS#18. "What the hey???" Then imagine my utter disappointment when I realized that the body of the ARMS#18 interferes with the QD throw lever of the EXPS, preventing the EXPS from properly engaging and installing on the ARMS#18's rail. Can you say "$600 paperweight"?? (See first pic.)

I e-mailed EOTech explaining my problem and received a reply within hours. On the EXPS, it is possible to remove the mounting base, which is held in place with two screws, and turn it around. (See second pic.) Doing so allowed me to successfully install the EXPS on the ARMS#18. WHEW!!! What a relief! (See third pic.)

Just out of curiousity, I e-mailed GG&G asking about their Accucam QD mount for the EOTech XPS sights, and its compatability with the ARMS#18. Sure enough, the Accucam lever will also contact the body of the AMRS#18 and prevent installation of an XPS w/Accucam. Because the Accucam system replaces the factory crossbolt on the XPS, it cannot be installed on the other side (ie- cannot be "turned around") as is possible with the mounting base of the EXPS.

So the bottom line is, an EOTech XPS w/ GG&G Accucam QD system cannot be installed on an ARMS#18 mount. (An EOTech w/out QD will install fine, as I've done with a friend's 552.) An EOTech EXPS can be installed on the ARMS#18 after reversing the mounting base.

Since the nice people at both EOTech and GG&G hadn't heard of or considered this before, I may be the guinea pig for this particular setup, so I just thought I'd put the info out there before anyone else starts spending their hard-earned $$ on something that may not work...

 

[mercman]

Very timely post!! I was considering the same setup on my Bush rifle. Whew! I have a very similar setup using a 552 with the GG&G mount on my duty AR which, of course, is flat top. I, too, want to mount a magnifier for the added flexibility of longer range target acquisition.

I have not yet bought a mount for the Bush rifle but had narrowed it down to the Arms 18 or a Basset and have been eyeing the XPS3 as my optic of choice. This post really helps me out and will save me some time.

I've had the cover off of my 552 to mount the GG&G sight hood so been there. Is the XPS similar?

Very nice looking rig, BTW!

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

Very timely post!! I was considering the same setup on my Bush rifle. Whew! I have a very similar setup using a 552 with the GG&G mount on my duty AR which, of course, is flat top. I, too, want to mount a magnifier for the added flexibility of longer range target acquisition.

I have not yet bought a mount for the Bush rifle but had narrowed it down to the Arms 18 or a Basset and have been eyeing the XPS3 as my optic of choice. This post really helps me out and will save me some time.

I've had the cover off of my 552 to mount the GG&G sight hood so been there. Is the XPS similar?

Very nice looking rig, BTW!

Well I'm glad it was helpful! Like I mentioned earlier, I really cannot describe the disappointment when I first realized the EXPS would not install on the ARMS#18.

I did have to remove the hood from the EXPS before I could remove/reverse the mounting base - it was simple and just like the 552, with one minor exception. The hood for the 552 has four Torx screws holding the hood in place - the EXPS actually has just three. Be advised that the XPS/EXPS sights have a different (shorter) hood so they will need a different lens cover as well.

I haven't seen a Basset mount first-hand but, if I understand right, the Picatinny rail version sits too low to allow use of the iron sights. If that's true, you'll likely want to go with the ARMS#18 because, once the optic is removed, the ARMS allows use of irons because its rail sits low enough to see the irons over the ARMS mount's rail. The other possible issue with the Basset could be, like with the ARMS#18, that its body may interfere with installation of an EXPS or an XPS w/ Accucam mount. You should contact Basset and ask.

One other possibility is using a Smith or Sadlak mount, both of which have the "see-thru channel" to allow use of irons. I have a Smith mount on another M1A, with a Leuplod Mk4 mounted. In that configuration, I cannot use the irons because I have the Loopy mounted with ARMS#22 Low rings, so the scope blocks the channel & iron sights. However, I can see the irons through the channel with either EOTech installed on the Smith mount. The drawback is that the Smith mount's rail sits about 1/4" higher than the rail on the AMRS#18.

So the next issue with a Smith or Sadlak mount becomes cheek weld. You'll notice the VLTOR stock my Scout is in has a vertically adjustable buttstock tube. If I set it low enough to use the irons, then it's a real chin weld to use the EOTech. I haven't shot the rifle since installing the EXPS so I haven't found the best trade-off on tube height but, since I can fit the LaRue 3/8" wrench into the butt's storage tube, at least I'm not stuck with just one butt height or the other.

Also, if you like a single red dot, then I'd say get the Aimpoint Micro T-1 w/ LaRue LT661 QD mount. I had that setup and it worked well because it put the red dot lower on the rifle. But I like the EOTech reticle enough that I made the switch. (shrug)

IMO, a flat-top platform is definitely a better way to go, ergonomically (if Robarm would ever get the XCR-M to market, but I digress), so I do still have some tinkering to do, but it's workable and it's been fun to experiment with.

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

Oh yeah, if you really want to start dropping some $$... you could install a Troy M14 BattleRail. It would give you a flat-top platform from the rear sight to the front stock ferrule, so you could put whatever optic and/or BUIS you like on there. While it didn't add any appreciable weight to the rifle overall, it shifted the balance far enough forward that I didn't care for how it handled.

Actually, if Troy made a similar piece with just the top rail, I'd probably do that. I don't want/need the side rails so that would probably shave enough weight off the setup for my liking. As you might have guessed by now, I've put WAAYYY too much effort into making a carbine out of an M14. LOL!

 

[mercman]

I picked up a Troy MCS a few months ago with the intention of installing it on one of my 18" M1A's. The Troy provides some of the same ergonomics as the flat top AR platform so I should be able to use some of the same accessories that I use on my duty rifle. So far I've just tacked on an A2 buttstock and am still researching my sight package. On my duty rifle I run a forward grip, uh, KZZ? with an integral weapon light mount for a Procyon pistol light and an ARMs 40L BUIS. Of course with the Troy I'll need both front and rear BUIS's.

I also want to have one of the 18"er's set up in a more conventional manners so that I can still take advantage of some of the more traditional features of the platform. I very much like the CQB aspect of these shorter barreled rifles.

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

I looked at the Troy MCS and the Sage EBR stocks, but they were too heavy for my wants. My rifle as it's currently configured weighs 11# with a loaded magazine. Not too bad for an M14-type rifle.

 

[mercman]

Yeah, not sure what the curb weight on the assembled Troy with my desired accessories will be. It's definitely a concern. Whatever I go with I'll be using a heavy duty 2 or 3 point sling.

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

Yeah, not sure what the curb weight on the assembled Troy with my desired accessories will be. It's definitely a concern. Whatever I go with I'll be using a heavy duty 2 or 3 point sling.

I like the VCAS 2-pt sling from Larry Vickers/Blue Force Gear. It's not a the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's a good compromise between a 1-pt and a 3-pt. It's pretty quick to get out of carry and into a shooting position, but you're not so wrapped up in it like the 3-pt I tried once upon a time.

 

[mercman]

I've got a 3 point Blackhawk on my duty AR and it's great for running and getting the rifle out of the way when you're cuffing someone, but seriously sucks when transitioning to the opposited shoulder. Pretty much have to pop the loop over your head and onto the off arm. Better for me than living with a single point, though. Ever try running with single point while doing something with both hands?

Still looking for that perfect sling, but what works for my duty AR probably won't work for the M1A,

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

I've got a 3 point Blackhawk on my duty AR and it's great for running and getting the rifle out of the way when you're cuffing someone, but seriously sucks when transitioning to the opposited shoulder. Pretty much have to pop the loop over your head and onto the off arm. Better for me than living with a single point, though. Ever try running with single point while doing something with both hands?

Still looking for that perfect sling, but what works for my duty AR probably won't work for the M1A,

Yeah, I had a 1-pt that fastex buckled into a MOLLE attachment on the vest. Ran that at a carbine course a couple years ago and managed to drop the rifle twice, due to bumping the fastex buckle. So much for that idea...

The VCAS is not great for transitioning to the opposite shoulder either. I've seen 2-pt slings with a section of bungee and have wondered if there's anything more than a gimmick there...

 

[mercman]

MagPul MS2..........

I picked up a MagPul Multimission sling but have not yet had a chance to install it on my duty rifle. I may install it on one of my other AR's first just to try it out. What I like about it is that it can be used as a single or a two point sling. It looks like it could be a candidate for the M1A.

 

[dcobra823]

I have the XPS3-0 and just ordered the Sadlak mount. The eotech has a Larue LT110 installed. Im sure it will work fine if not anybody have problems with that kind of setup.

 

[dcobra823]

I mounted my XPS3-0 on a Salak without a hitch yesterday. I have full iron sight access as well! Just waiting on the cheek riser and im in business....

LRB Tanker waiting for the TNVC Cheek riser model 0 to get here

Looks like I have room for a 3X magnifier....

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

I mounted my XPS3-0 on a Salak without a hitch yesterday. I have full iron sight access as well! Just waiting on the cheek riser and im in business....

LRB Tanker waiting for the TNVC Cheek riser model 0 to get here

Looks like I have room for a 3X magnifier....

There is room for the 3x magnifier, however...

I installed a Sadlak Airborne mount because, with the ARMS#18, the wide base of the EXPS was causing failures to eject - about every third round IIRC. The Sadlak mount elevated the EXPS enough to provide adequate clearance for ejection.

I installed an Aimpoint 3x in a LaRue LT755 QD Pivot Mount. With the 3x pivoted to the right side, it was causing FTE issues - about 1 in 10 IIRC - because the case would hit the front of the magnifier. (Glad I had the forethought to put the lens cover on the front before test firing!)

The M1A pictured in my post above currently has a 2x Aimpoint CompM2 installed for deer season, so some time after the new year I'll probably turn the 3x around in the LaRue mount and re-test the whole setup with the magnifier pivoting to the left. The picture included here shows the EXPS/3x setup as it currently sits on my Robinson XCR, but the pictured configuration is what causes occasional FTE issues on the M1A.

 

[SmokyBaer]

Had a very similar experience with an EoTech 555 on my ARMS18.
A little file work on a $500 sight and everything worked out great!!

Here's how i fixed mine...
http://m14forum.com/optics/95786-eotech-555-arms-throw-levers-arms-18-mount-oops.html


No FTEs with my ARMS setup.

 

[CRASH -CAF-]

Had a very similar experience with an EoTech 555 on my ARMS18.
A little file work on a $500 sight and everything worked out great!!

Here's how i fixed mine...
http://m14forum.com/optics/95786-eotech-555-arms-throw-levers-arms-18-mount-oops.html


No FTEs with my ARMS setup.

I had to do the same with the LaRue mount to get it to fit on the ARMS#18. With the Sadlak mount, that filing/grinding is not necessary.