M14 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 57 Posts

·
NSR
Joined
·
1,557 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Gents,

I'm sick and tired of other folks running down the M-14 and it's variants. Whether it's stock issue rifles or something like the M-14 DMR and the EBR series of rifles the M-14 is still "getting it done" out there. Those that use them love them. Could it use some upgrades? Maybe, but remember it's a tool. The Man is the weapon. Those that take time to learn, and master, the M-14 are still in good stead and have a deadly weapon in their hands.

Personally, I'd like to see a run of Bula mil spec rifles for reissue to the troops that need M-14's. Upgrade the optics and we'd be good to go. A Bula M-14 with an ACOG would be sweet to say the least.

I do not advocate the general issue of AR-10 type rifles to the troops.

If the M-14 has one shortcoming its speed of reloading. I believe that could possibly be addressed with a modified magazine and a push button or lever that could speed up the reloading process.

Food for thought. I have most of the M-14's and their variants and do not find them lacking.

Wes
Tired old Dinosaur
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,323 Posts
As one dinosaur to another Wes, the only shortcoming with an M14 falls on the untrained person blabbing about imperfections. Mag changes have never been a problem for a good operator. The M14 is probably the most reliable semi-auto battle rifle ever " next to the AK-47" which undoubtedly holds that record.

Agree again the a AR10 would never work out as a general issue, way too many unreliable reports from its trials in the past.

So, keep on enjoying your variants and give the uneducated the opportunity to learn from your experiences.

Art
Another tired old Dinosaur
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
I don't think mag changes on the M14 will ever be as fast as an AR, but I don't think it is particularly slow either. I think it's a training matter. You can almost push an M14 magazine straight in if you know what you are doing. I'm not great at it, but I can do it.

Honestly, I think the biggest upgrade for the M14 would be a new standard issue stock. I think that a modern pistol grip stock is preferable for a combat rifle, and I think standardizing something like the Blackfeather would go a long way toward improving the M14 for the average trooper. Along with that, a standard issue optics mount and optic would bring up the capabilities of the platform. Add those, and I think the M14 could serve into the foreseeable future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
The most common attacks on the M14 are the weight and optics mounting. Optics mounting is solvable by implementing something like the LRB M25. As far as weight, I think that is just something easy to nitpick, I do see that a much of an issue, but of course there are ways to reduce it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,956 Posts
Compared to the AR platform, the M14 is a logistical nightmare.

1. Training.

A. Marksmanship. Teaching someone to shoot with a standard stock takes time and money. Any idiot can shoot a stock with a pistol grip.

B. Support. The M14 needs highly trained armorers to keep it up and running. The parts themselves are durable, but many are not drop in. In contrast, idiots are building AR's in their parent's basements.

2. Parts. Difficult to make and expensive. Receivers, bolts, trigger housings and oprods require way to many operations, especially if you want them forged.

Sure, it would be nice to see Uncle Sam try a few thousand updated M14's built by a company like Bula. Ditch the full auto crap and the rear sight. Have an integral full length rail for modern battlefield optics. Strip down a Sage stock so it more ergonomic and can be removed in the field.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,724 Posts
I know many folks like the simplicity associated with changing M16/M4 magazines but I have had more than a few issues inserting full 30 rd. magazines in a closed bolt. I have never had an issue inserting a full M14 magazine on a closed bolt. The rocking motion takes advantage of mechanical leverage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
203 Posts
If i were gonna field 10,000 warfighters with rifles, I'd give them AR-10s. In that mission, the supply line, support, training, and performance all give the nod to the AR-10 and no amount of posturing and howling changes that.

But I'm not doing that. Nor are the pompous twits that make blogs and vlogs placing their self-centered opinions on display. These guys like to THINK they're the Grand Emperor Supreme Military Commander Of All Things, and that's fine, we all do that from time-to-time, but so what? There are nearby taverns where I can hear endless words of unqualified drunks often with my favorite song playing in the background. So I don't need their online testosterone "advising" me.

I actually own multiples of both - or did before that tragic boating accident - and each has their desirable traits. What i don't get and have never gotten is the need to trash ANOTHER rifle besides your own. Who is that insecure?? Do they give these rifles to 9 year olds? What's this playground mentality all about?

Anyone that stoops to insulting my M14 has just told me he's without merit in his position and without fortitude in his character. But then, the same holds true for anyone trashing my AR-10 -- well, you know, if it's ever recovered from the watery grave.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,626 Posts
Compared to the AR platform, the M14 is a logistical nightmare.

1. Training.

A. Marksmanship. Teaching someone to shoot with a standard stock takes time and money. Any idiot can shoot a stock with a pistol grip.

B. Support. The M14 needs highly trained armorers to keep it up and running. The parts themselves are durable, but many are not drop in. In contrast, idiots are building AR's in their parent's basements.

2. Parts. Difficult to make and expensive. Receivers, bolts, trigger housings and oprods require way to many operations, especially if you want them forged.

Sure, it would be nice to see Uncle Sam try a few thousand updated M14's built by a company like Bula. Ditch the full auto crap and the rear sight. Have an integral full length rail for modern battlefield optics. Strip down a Sage stock so it more ergonomic and can be removed in the field.
Kurt,
You put M14 parts into mass production with modern technology and I think cost and difficulty are reduced substantially.
Or
Compare cost and procedure to durability and longevity and you end up with a positive. It is more than impressive that you can take a stock weapon with parts over 50 years old that can easily compete with modern technology.
Yes, moving a barreled receiver from one stock to another requires adjustments, time, and “feel”(experience) to duplicate accuracy, but is that really a bad thing? Says who? Today’s fast food, instant gratification capitalism?
Yes training takes time and money, but I always believe time and effort is good practice.
Would you rather have hardwood floors or laminate? Tongue and groove or glue? Most wouldn’t notice, both do the job at present, but one method and materials was built to last a lifetime, another was created to be disposable. I vote for craftsmanship, accomplished training, and reliability.
I guess the answer to this question boils down to each individual’s own value system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
Either you appreciate the M14 (and of course, the M1 Garand) for its wonderful mechanics, or you don't. I'm honestly glad it doesn't have the same level of popularity as the AR. Some extra attention to detail, training, and knowledge are required for it to operate properly.

It's still a formidable tool in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.

The AR platform just has no appeal to me, even in my favorite caliber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,678 Posts
I don’t own an AR10.
I can still appreciate the engineering of a modular approach to producing a more accurate rifle that has easy interchangeable parts.
that don’t need to be fitted.

That doesn’t take away from the M14 platform I enjoy despite its fitting requirements and flyers.
Call it the character of the platform.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,724 Posts
I don’t own an AR10.
I can still appreciate the engineering of a modular approach to producing a more accurate rifle that has easy interchangeable parts.
that don’t need to be fitted.
Well, if you expect parts interchangeability, don’t look toward an AR10. There are no mil standards for AR10 parts like there is for AR15’s. AR10’s simply can’t be easily assembled like AR15’s. Also, if you need replacement parts, you pretty much have to go to the OEM if you want them to function well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
Well, if you expect parts interchangeability, don’t look toward an AR10. There are no mil standards for AR10 parts like there is for AR15’s. AR10’s simply can’t be easily assembled like AR15’s. Also, if you need replacement parts, you pretty much have to go to the OEM if you want them to function well.
Proprietary parts is the main thing hat kept the AR-10 out of the military. PLUS, in a "Soldier of Fortune" magazine, there was a small article written by a Marine Captain. In it he stated they were excited when Armalite of Geneseo, IL came out with their "new" AR-10s. Was this going to be a good, solid replacement for the M-16 with its 5.56? They ran it through some general tests. Everything checked out okay BUT, they determined that the aluminum upper "spread" after 10K rounds and they found this unexceptable. Perhaps if the AR-10 came with an 8620 steel upper, the AR-10 would make a better combat rifle.

It took me YEARS to convince myself to get an AR-10, and them after I did, it took over a year to get it "correct". I still do not know if it is any "better" than my M-14 variants. I certainly do not want to lose my status as a Certified Member of The M-14 Cult, but the AR-10 is: cheaper, easier to clean, easier to replace parts, mags are cheaper and more available, parts cheaper and more available, easier to scope. good balance, reputed to be more accurate ( I don't know this yet) and I do not know if it is more reliable and has "less recoil" (a subjective issue I know). Any able bodied person, who knows how to shoot from position, could shoot my M-14 clones all day without any problems.

My SHTFTEOTWAWKI piece is still a lowly M-14 clone with dependable mags that work and an attempt to scope it.

Jarhead
 
1 - 20 of 57 Posts
Top