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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can anyone tell me or help me figure out whether I'll have enough elevation with the Sadlak mount I ordered to get out to 1,000 yards if I have a 10x scope that gives me 40 MOA up and 40 down? I'm shooting some M118. I don't know whether I'll need a mount with more elevation or not.
 

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If the scope performs as advertised it looks like you would be able to use it out to 1000. The M118 has about 30 MOA drop at 1000.

I guess I'm getting senile, I should have said 40 MOA drop at 1000 so your scope would be pushed to it's max if you sight in for 100. You could zero at the max effective range (around 250 yards on a 4" kill zone?) and that would give your knob a few more usable clicks at 1000.
 
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You can slightly push the Sadlak mount into the clip guide to get a little down angle on the mount. Don't try to go crazy, just snug it into the clip guide. It'll definitely push the limits of the scope but it might be able to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys. I'm going to see how much elevation I have left after zeroing it. Have any of you had any experience with those Burris Signature rings with the offset inserts that are supposed to give you some more elevation?
 

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Depends on how many you use up for zero, plus atmosphere, elevation and actual muzzle velocity.

Ruffly, 175 at 2600fps will use up around 35-40 moa / 10.3-11.2mils to touch 1000. Last time to 1000 my dope card said 10.8mils but splashing short, up'd to 11.1 with bolt gun.

Utah?, shooting at higher elevations than most but the air drier, I would go with a sloped base with your scope or for the money a SS 10x has 120moa "60/60" for around $350.

Can you see having one of the best days of shooting ever and walking it out and get dialed on 900, go to dope up for 1000 and, nothing more to dial!
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks 45.308 - I agree that'd be a bad day not being able to push it out any further. I'm going to see how much I can get out of those 40 minutes up. I just really like the look of that Sadlak mount ha
 

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Where are you zero-ed to get +40 MOA elevation? From a 100 yard zero, I believe you will need around 43 MOA minimum to get out to 1000 yards. I like the old B-Square mounts because they let you adjust the elevation in the mount itself.

This is assuming you are shooting a 168 HPBT at around 2600 fps MV.

- Ivan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I haven't shot yet - I'm still trying to figure out which mount to get. But yes, my scope has 40 up and 40 down for 80 MOA total. Ivan - Thanks and I'll check out those older mounts. I may end up using the mil dot reticle to give me the remaining elevation but I'd still rather be able to click it right on for accuracy...
 

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The bottom line is this, you have to figure out how much the bullet drops, in inches, at 1000 yards; lets say 380" for a nice round number. Divide the 380" by the size of one MOA at 1000 yards, about 10.47", in this case that would mean that you have to come up about 36 - 38 MOA (the math works out to be a little over 36 MOA but in the field you will probably have to add a little more elevation).

There are slight differences between the muzzle velocities of the different "M118" cartridges depending on when it was made and if it is the standard ball or the long range round. But a ball park figure using the newer 175 grain M118LR would be a drop of about 391". That means that you would end up using about 37 - 39 MOA to get on target assuming that you were sighted in at 100 yards originally. If you want to stretch things a bit, sight the rifle in for about 255 yards (based on a six inch kill zone) and you would need about 33 - 35 MOA to get out to 1000 yards while being no more than six inches high any where along the bullet's flight path. That's if you are shooting at a target that is level with you, if you have to shoot uphill or downhill then things will improve a bit since you wont need as much elevation.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The bottom line is this, you have to figure out how much the bullet drops, in inches, at 1000 yards; lets say 380" for a nice round number. Divide the 380" by the size of one MOA at 1000 yards, about 10.47", in this case that would mean that you have to come up about 36 - 38 MOA (the math works out to be a little over 36 MOA but in the field you will probably have to add a little more elevation).

There are slight differences between the muzzle velocities of the different "M118" cartridges depending on when it was made and if it is the standard ball or the long range round. But a ball park figure using the newer 175 grain M118LR would be a drop of about 391". That means that you would end up using about 37 - 39 MOA to get on target assuming that you were sighted in at 100 yards originally. If you want to stretch things a bit, sight the rifle in for about 255 yards (based on a six inch kill zone) and you would need about 33 - 35 MOA to get out to 1000 yards while being no more than six inches high any where along the bullet's flight path. That's if you are shooting at a target that is level with you, if you have to shoot uphill or downhill then things will improve a bit since you wont need as much elevation.
First off, thanks for the taking the time to help me out. I guess what I need to do is just mount it up and shoot it. I'll do what you suggested and sight it in at 255 and see where that gets me. The M118LR I came into is from 1963 so I'll have to see where that puts the bullet. I'm just damn excited to get it all set up and see how far I can touch. Thanks again.

I noticed from your signature that you're a Marine. Where were you stationed?

-Clint
 

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Hi Cowpoke,
35 to 45 MOA drop out to 1000 yards is why a lot of scope mounts have around a 20 MOA angle built in. If you want to be sure you have the elevation range, you could just get a scope with a 30 mm tube. I use a couple Tasco Super Snipers with 30 mm tubes. I believe their adjustment range is around 120 MOA or so. (Don't remember exactly but it was much more than I needed. My other Target Scopes are Leupold Vari-X IIIs. Some are EFR, some are not. Nominally they have 48 MOA internal adjustment, but I tested one (EFR) out to around 54 MOA up past my 100 yard zero.

The way I tested was to hang a super high target (several sheets of computer paper) out at 100 yards. The aiming point was at the low end. I would shoot one round and go up 10 MOA. When I tried for +60 MOA, the scope was clicking fine, but the bullet hole was only up 54 MOA. After that, I adjusted down 10 MOA each time and fired another shot. The shots going up and coming down were fairly close and easily sub-MOA for group for each pair (only a two round group).

One Leupold 6.5-20X non-Target scope stopped adjusting when I tried something similar. It would not adjust back down. The Extended Focus Range Target scope had no problems.

- Ivan.
 

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The older M118 used a 172 grain bullet vs. the current 175 grain bullet, it doesn't drop quite as much as the newer cartridge and that means that you would probably have a couple less MOA drop at 1000. I can't give you any real world numbers because I've never used that ammo, I reload. Again, I think testing in the field is the best way to go for two reasons;

  • Bullet drop calculations on paper don't always match the real world (sometimes it's the calculator and sometimes it's the guy doing the calculatin' DI5).
  • Like Ivan said, sometimes the scope just doesn't work as advertised.

There are several tests that you can perform on the scope, and I recommend doing them before you try shooting at long range, that will verify it's proper function. Going in to detail on each would use up a lot posting space so I'll just mention the tests that I perform and if you have questions about any of them just ask or do a search on this forum or the Internet.

Is the reticle straight up and down
Is the reticle focused sharply
Has the parallax been focused out at the target's range
Do the knobs create the same change in point of impact
Can you adjust the scope to get dead on target​


And yes, I did my 20+ in the Corps. I was air winger with the Harriers out of Yuma, AZ most of the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The older M118 used a 172 grain bullet vs. the current 175 grain bullet, it doesn't drop quite as much as the newer cartridge and that means that you would probably have a couple less MOA drop at 1000. I can't give you any real world numbers because I've never used that ammo, I reload. Again, I think testing in the field is the best way to go for two reasons;

  • Bullet drop calculations on paper don't always match the real world (sometimes it's the calculator and sometimes it's the guy doing the calculatin' DI5).
  • Like Ivan said, sometimes the scope just doesn't work as advertised.

There are several tests that you can perform on the scope, and I recommend doing them before you try shooting at long range, that will verify it's proper function. Going in to detail on each would use up a lot posting space so I'll just mention the tests that I perform and if you have questions about any of them just ask or do a search on this forum or the Internet.

Is the reticle straight up and down
Is the reticle focused sharply
Has the parallax been focused out at the target's range
Do the knobs create the same change in point of impact
Can you adjust the scope to get dead on target​


And yes, I did my 20+ in the Corps. I was air winger with the Harriers out of Yuma, AZ most of the time.
I'll take her out once she's all set up and check all those out. I didn't know about the difference in the bullet in those older M118s. Thanks for that.
I'll post my results on here as soon as I get them!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi Cowpoke,
35 to 45 MOA drop out to 1000 yards is why a lot of scope mounts have around a 20 MOA angle built in. If you want to be sure you have the elevation range, you could just get a scope with a 30 mm tube. I use a couple Tasco Super Snipers with 30 mm tubes. I believe their adjustment range is around 120 MOA or so. (Don't remember exactly but it was much more than I needed. My other Target Scopes are Leupold Vari-X IIIs. Some are EFR, some are not. Nominally they have 48 MOA internal adjustment, but I tested one (EFR) out to around 54 MOA up past my 100 yard zero.

The way I tested was to hang a super high target (several sheets of computer paper) out at 100 yards. The aiming point was at the low end. I would shoot one round and go up 10 MOA. When I tried for +60 MOA, the scope was clicking fine, but the bullet hole was only up 54 MOA. After that, I adjusted down 10 MOA each time and fired another shot. The shots going up and coming down were fairly close and easily sub-MOA for group for each pair (only a two round group).

One Leupold 6.5-20X non-Target scope stopped adjusting when I tried something similar. It would not adjust back down. The Extended Focus Range Target scope had no problems.

- Ivan.
Is there a site I can check out those Super Snipers? I couldn't find them on swfa.com but maybe I just missed them.
 

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SWFA is where I bought mine. I returned one because it looked like it had a small piece of hair inside. Only one is mounted and it sits on a 26 inch heavy barrel Remington 700 in .308. I can easily hold 1/2 MOA out to 200 meters with that gun. The M14 types only get slightly under 3/4 MOA at the same distance.

BTW, I seemed to have goofed up the message you quoted. I had meant to say that most high power rifles have a drop of 35 to 45 MOA if they can reach out to 1000 yards.

- Ivan.
 
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