[shadowrider]

An end run around congress?

I copy this WITH PERMISSION from it's author. As you will see below there is a lot of work in figuring out who to contact in this matter. It's very hard and time intensive to get to the correct individuals and .gov sites to voice your opinion. This is by design. But here is the info. So let's spread the word, we just maybe can make a difference. Sorry for the length but that's just the nature of our government these days....



FWIW, The BATFE and U.S. government are required to open this request in the Federal Register for public comment. Even the notice itself states:

This notice requests comments from the public and affected agencies concerning the proposed information collection.

However, they specifically do not want public comments and make every effort to discourage public comments in several ways. The Federal Register search engine is effectively useless. Trying to search for this specific notice using keywords, BATFE or the notice date will send you on a fruitless search designed to discourage your efforts. The notice posted on the BATFE website conveniently omits the page number, which is the only effective way to find the notice in the Federal Register. The page number for this notice is 79021 by the way. Additionally, unlike many notices they know will garner significant public interest, they have omitted the option to comment on this particular notice online. They have also omitted the physical OMB address for public comment, and instead posted a toll number (202)395-6466. Finally, in their instructions for comments, they advise you to address your comments specifically to four narrow subjects regarding the notice:

Written comments and suggestions from the public and affected
agencies concerning the proposed collection of information. Your
comments should address one or more of the following four points:

--Evaluate whether the proposed collection of information is necessary
for the proper performance of the functions of the agency, including
whether the information will have practical utility;

--Evaluate the accuracy of the agencies estimate of the burden of the
proposed collection of information, including the validity of the
methodology and assumptions used;

--Enhance the quality, utility, and clarity of the information to be
collected; and

--Minimize the burden of the collection of information on those who are
to respond, including through the use of appropriate automated,
electronic, mechanical, or other technological collection techniques or
other forms of information technology, e.g., permitting electronic
submission of responses.

For your convenience, I have attached the web addresses for the Federal Register, .pdf file of the actual notice, html file of the notice, and the press release by the BATFE regarding the notice. More importantly, I am attaching the email address of the official point of contact for this notice within BATFE. This person is responsible internally for collecting comments and suggestions for the "regular review" of the information collection request. If you, like me, find it disturbing that BATFE and OMB have by all outward appearances intentionally made it difficult to respond to this notice, I would also recommend that you contact your congressman's office to lodge a complaint. I would point out that if you wish to officially comment, it is highly recommended that you refrain from inflammatory comments. Keeping your comments fact based and to the point will make them much more effective. Feel free to post this information anywhere else you care to.

Federal Register: Main Page
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-31761.pdf
http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=wHqpgT/0/1/0&WAISaction=retrieve
http://www.atf.gov/p...on-webcast.html

And last but not least: [email protected]

While significant resistance by the NRA and GOA can affect this proposal, significant public comments in the NPRM can often defeat proposals such as these. It all counts in the final tally.

 

[SimpleCountryActuary]

Government agencies in general are acting just like that. they don't really want our opinion and they are blunt in saying so. The IRS issued proposed regulations last Summer eliminating the 8109-B coupon for small tax withholding amounts and told everyone they will be required to start following the proposed regulations and electronically pay taxes before the final regulations were even issued. It's like "We're thinking about changing the rules so you must follow the new rules that we are only thinking about."

At least the BATF isn't proposing eliminating those "heat seeking bullets" that our Senator Diane warned us about. The problem is that neither Cabellas nor CTD seem to carry them. GI2

 

[wifetrained]

Just another example of the "Transparent Goverment" working for the "People" we were promised. Regardless if one wishes to believe it, it's pretty much a sham and has been so for quite some time.

The maximum effective range of any weapon is where you can effectively engage the target.

JMPWNG2
ARMY1

 

[ripper51]

In talking with a couple of the gun shop owners over the past couple of days, the "suggested" change is already fact. DEA and ATF have cameras and sensors at all border crossing points, as well as at the Border Patrol Checkpoints outside El Paso. These sensors detect the presence of firearms and ammo- by some very sophisticated means and methods, then photograph the license plate and car. Several folks, myself included, have been stopped and questioned about the presence of firearms and ammo in the vehicles. Me? I was going to and coming from High Power competitions out of town. And refused to answer until my attorney could advise me. Had one of the BATFE folks show up at the house December 23, asking if he could ask questions. I wasn't rude but explained I had no intentions of answering any questions.

 

[captaincrunch]

RFID's

I guess there are RFID'S tags (radio freuqency identifiers) in the ammo or ammo boxes. Store your ammo in ammo cans and transport your ammo (Legally) without being questioned or harrassed. The ammo cans should block the signal. Again I stress "Legally"

(I used to live in east side of El Paso)

NAV1

 

[CAVman]

I guess there are RFID'S tags (radio freuqency identifiers) in the ammo or ammo boxes.

NAV1

Can Anyone Clarify If This Statement Is Just A 'Tinfoil Hat' Theory...Or If There Is Any Validity To It !?
GI8
'Ripper51' stated above that very sensitive and sophisticated means are being used to detect FIREARMS and AMMO...
Does Anybody Know Any FACTS about This?

CAVman in WYoming

 

[ripper51]

Went looking for the RFIDs but there were none. Ammo is stored legally. Components are stored legally. Even powder is under Federal limits. Problem is border and frontier monitoring system. System detects ammo- and I know how it works I just don't want to waste space describing it-,system takes pic of front and rear license plate, system now has unlimited info on vehicle and possibly owner. System flashes alert as specified threshold is crossed, driver is stopped and questioned. This determines that owner indeed is transporting ammo. Sometimes BP can intimidate driver/owner into showing weapons and allowing serial numbers to be entered into system..."just to check if they are on anyone's list, sir" (my answer is predictable), now ICE and HS have weapons info and ammo info on owner driver and further inquiries are passed to ........BATFE.
See how the system works?
I refused to show weapons, refused to allow a search until my attorney arrived, and refused to answer questions. While my delay was about 2 hours when this first occurred, while they waited on guidance (which said cut him loose), since then I have no doubt my license number pops up, and I am cheerfully waved thru. Can I expect more visits from alphabet agencies? You betcha. If they are harassing me as a non-cooperative citizen, can you imagine about Average Joe who says sure look and take pictures, copy serial numbers all you want.

 

[ripper51]

Can Anyone Clarify If This Statement Is Just A 'Tinfoil Hat' Theory...Or If There Is Any Validity To It !?
GI8
'Ripper51' stated above that very sensitive and sophisticated means are being used to detect FIREARMS and AMMO...
Does Anybody Know Any FACTS about This?

CAVman in WYoming

No RFID's in ammo or components. There have been several articles about the weapons detection equipment at the BP checkpoints in the media and pictures of it as well. http://www.officer.com/web/online/C...Patrol-Checkpoints-Get-Tech-Upgrades/12$47321
The stops are all facts. The checks for weapons and ammo are all facts. At the border itself, they use a sniffer to detect the presence of certain chemicals found in gunpowder and primers. There are also various types of other gear. Just like the guy at the airport swiping a swab across your bags and inserting it into a sniffer. The detection equipment is a fact. The visit by BATFE is a fact. The establishment of the checkpoints happened many years ago. Probably before CAVman was a gleam in his daddy's eye<grin>.
The comment about RFID's? Everyone seems to thinks the government can plant RFID tags everywhere. They have neither the equipment nor the expertise.

 

[wifetrained]

Well one certainly has to be suspicious of the Fed's true intent here. Crime control, at least on this side of the border, has nothing to do with it. Nor is what's happening on the mexican side of the border, that's their problem as far as I'm concerned. It's speculation on my part but I feel their intent is rather sinister.

The maximum effective range of any weapon is where you can effectively engage the target.

JMPWNG2
ARMY1

 

[ripper51]

The intent is simple: legislate by executive order, re-writing or "clarifying" a regulation, or reversing a long standing process by non-elected bureaucrats. Who needs election-vulnerable Congressmen when you can do it by other means?
This guy and his whole organization are simply the exposed portion of what other folks saw long ago- The Chicago Machine. If it scratches his happy place, it satisfies. If it fits his worldview, it is the "right thing to do".

 

[CAVman]

No RFID's in ammo or components. There have been several articles about the weapons detection equipment at the BP checkpoints in the media and pictures of it as well. http://www.officer.com/web/online/C...Patrol-Checkpoints-Get-Tech-Upgrades/12$47321
The stops are all facts. The checks for weapons and ammo are all facts. At the border itself, they use a sniffer to detect the presence of certain chemicals found in gunpowder and primers. There are also various types of other gear. Just like the guy at the airport swiping a swab across your bags and inserting it into a sniffer. The detection equipment is a fact. The visit by BATFE is a fact. The establishment of the checkpoints happened many years ago. Probably before CAVman was a gleam in his daddy's eye<grin>.
The comment about RFID's? Everyone seems to thinks the government can plant RFID tags everywhere. They have neither the equipment nor the expertise.

Clarifications---
The Only Thing I Was Questioning Was The Statements:
---"These sensors detect the presence of firearms and ammo"...
And...
---"...there are RFID's tags...in the ammo or ammo boxes..."

If None Of That Is Really Correct...Fine...That's What I Wanted To Know...
I Did Not Doubt Anything Else About Anyone Else's Story, Ok?
GI6
As To the Check-Points, I Did Not Doubt Those, No, They Did NOT Have Those When I Went Through BASIC at Fort Bliss, El Paso, Texas---44 Years Ago!
GITEN

What I 'hear' You Saying, Ripper51, and I'm sure You will correct me if I am wrong...
Is That Really What Is Happening Is 'They' Have Your License Plates In 'Their' Data Base...And THAT'S What 'Tips' Them Off !?
That's A Long Way From 'James Bond' Stuff!!!
GI6

CAVman in WYoming

 

[ripper51]

<grin> Boy, I hate the post and repost- sure makes for long reading.
The sensors do actually detect the presence of ammo. As far as I could see, they also are xray'ing(probably not xray but similar) and looking for obvious rifle or pistol shapes or unexplained voids that are blocked and not visible to either the sensors or the human eye.I have friends in ICE and BP and went with them to a checkpoint to see the sensitivity.
This thing will detect about the equivalent of 10 9mm rounds. Anything below is uncertain. It also has a function to it that will pickup on .....wait for it....Hoppe #9, common gun oils, and the like, IF directly exposed. Guess it can't do it at the distance from the sensors- 10-25 ft. So for those of us who dap a little Hoppe's behind the ear and in the pits.......<GRIN>
No RFID's. Too difficult and too costly, plus they have the normal intimidation methods that normally work.
These friends actually agree with my stance.
And yes, once there is a hit and the plates are recorded, that tips them off.
I went thru basic in San Diego about the same time. There was one outside Orogrande, one outside Sierra Blanca and one near Las Cruces, plus lots of little mobile ones on the other roads. My folks used to gripe about there always being a DPS or state trooper next to one.
And no problems here CAVman. I'm jealous you're in Wyoming. Hope to head there one day.

 

[August]

Hey this aint England and didnt we secede from the crown for all this crap they are pulling these days? It seems to alot of ppl thats what they are pushing for again! But why?

 

[Vermin]

The last two address are shut down. Third one was a page of gibberish. Fourth was moved somewhere else!!!

 

[wrwindsor]

Federal Register | Agency Information Collection Activities: Proposed Collection; Comments Requested

 

[Covey 551]

Sen Feinstein

Madame Senator has absolutely nothing to fear from a heat-seeking bullet....
It won't track "frigid".

 

[Daimyo]

Hey this aint England and didnt we secede from the crown for all this crap they are pulling these days? It seems to alot of ppl thats what they are pushing for again! But why?

You are 100% correct. As on who's ancestors fought at the Battle of Oriskany and the Seige of Fort Stanwix, I'll be damned to sit idle while the country they bled for, (and I am still serving) descends into a cradle to grave socialist police state.