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With all of the recent reports of issues with problems with SAI rifles you would think somebody from SAI would pipe in. Do you think they watch or care?
 

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No, but I can tell you that Armalite is active in the AR15/AR10 forums.
 

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IMHO, they not only watch what is said, but do care. However, I also believe that they realize that for every bad post that they have, there are many more happy customers and that the negative posts do not represent the whole picture.

They also realize that to start responding to the issues out in the open rather than with the owner or smith via e-mail or phone call would be a lose lose situation. No matter what they might say, there will always be naysayers or biased opinions of those who prefer other manufacturers.

That of course is my opinion and I'm stickin to it!
 

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If there is an M14 enthusiast among them they'll be watching. But like Hawk said, it would be beyond foolish for them to chime in and actively participate. No good would come of it, I assure you. However, the end result of their observation from a distance is a direct read on the voice of the customer, albiet with all the inherent biases and occasional emotion associated with disappointment.

Which brings up something WE owe each other: it's terribly easy to defame, exaggerate, brag beyond reality, etc. Posting in these kinds of forums gives the poster power that may exceed our wisdom. We can do serious harm to people and businesses by some careless words fueled by emotion of the moment and maybe some liquor. People's livelihoods can be impacted. Facts are facts and it's perfectly fine and useful to post observation and experiences, but unconstrained blathering can be harmful. I'm glad this place is not the kind of place that seems to produce such careless chatter and baseless blabbymouth BS.
 

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IMHO, they not only watch what is said, but do care. However, I also believe that they realize that for every bad post that they have, there are many more happy customers and that the negative posts do not represent the whole picture.

They also realize that to start responding to the issues out in the open rather than with the owner or smith via e-mail or phone call would be a lose lose situation. No matter what they might say, there will always be naysayers or biased opinions of those who prefer other manufacturers.

That of course is my opinion and I'm stickin to it!
Very astute Hawk, I couldn't of said it better.
 

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It should be apparent by now that the M1A "Civilian M14" Market is SAI's to lose. Under the original ownership, and up until, it seems, around 100,000 produced rifles, the Springfield Armory rifles were in general, excellent. The company used to take quality control seriously, and except for an occasionally incorrectly indexed barrel or some problems with initial runs of newly made commercial parts (like bolts and safeties) that they quickly made right, SAI was a pretty straight shooting outfit. Their warranty service covered, for the most part, their customers and people were satisfied.

Now we are well over 240,000 SAI Recievers in the world, and more and more problems that really matter - like firing pin retraction, soft bolts, etc, are surfacing. Perhaps we are making too much of a very few incidents - only SAI knows for sure - but letting even ONE rifle out with a potential safety problem would seem to be near suicidal in today's litigation climate. Don't they check the recievers against the print, any more? Each one seemed to get TLC back then - why not now?

And you can see the rise of their competitors - much smaller operations that are FORGING recievers and bolts, making a profit and gaining new adherents daily. SAI, you need to get back on the stick and regain your mantle as the M14 leader or go home. Colt, for example, is in the process of regaining it's 1911 market share, due to a concerted effort and the decision to make the investment in new CNC equipment - you should do likewise. CC
 

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And you can see the rise of their competitors - much smaller operations that are FORGING recievers and bolts, making a profit and gaining new adherents daily. SAI, you need to get back on the stick and regain your mantle as the M14 leader or go home.
While yes, there have been several small manufacturers building high quality receivers and bolts for M14s, that doesn't negate the fact that they are still relatively small compared to SAI. SAI is occupying the same position that they share with Kimber in the M1911 market. They make firearms for the weekend warrior who just wants a gun that works and doesn't necessarily care about authenticity to the original parts or manufacturing methods (obviously since you're here, you're an exception GI5). They offer enough distinct model lines that one can generally buy a gun with the special features that they want without breaking the bank.

Whereas LRB, Smith Enterprise, 7.62mm Firearms, Fulton Armory, etc are holding a similar niche to the semi-custom M1911 manufacturers like Les Baer, Nighthawk, Wilson Combat, etc. They make high quality guns that will more consistently work better than SAI's, but you're going to have to pay for it. They don't have production runs nearly as large as SAI, and individual parts and guns see more hand fitting than SAI, so there's no possible way for them to compete price-wise without sacrificing quality.

While yes, Springfield's guns aren't nearly as good as they used to be, they're not likely to be supplanted by LRB or Smith any time soon. Unless one of them manages to perfect a manufacturing method to make a high quality forged receiver and then build it into a gun that costs $1500, SAI's position in the market is going to be pretty stable.
 

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Love my SAI M1As. Have four pre-92 rifles complete with USGI parts. The warranty and customer service are top notch.

Swap the extractor, go shoot and have a ball....M80 ball that is. Bring a lot.
 

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Personally I dont think they watch the forum. Yes i am the latest victim of the "its got a lifetime warranty" dont worry about it, its covered saga. I soke to two dealer reps today. Neither of them said they were even aware of the forum much less the problems with compnent quality control. So I took it upon myself to invite them here to search around. I mentioned a few of the probelms members have had. Barrels out of index, op rod guides out off allignment on match rifles, hammer hooks breaking, triggers not locking up correctly, receiver bridges that look like they were done in bubbas shop on a deserted highway in the destert and finally my bolt that looks like it was hit by a mac truck and I know I am not the only one out there with a soft bolt. The replies I got were canned and I felt like throwing up on the phone it made me feel that ill. "thats why we have the lifetime waranty". I went on to ask how do I know that the bolt that is going to go in the rifle is going to propperly heat treated? I got another cannned answer, "we do not put defective parts in our rifles", I took the oppurtunity to tell them otherwise because if that were the case we would not be having this conversation. The bottom line is, it happens more often than not! I could care less how many come out of the box without any problems its the ones that have to go back and go back a second time that bother me. This is the second time with just one SAI rifle I own. Excuse me for not having any faith, but I fully expect to put another 700 or so rounds downrange and have something else fail. I cannot nor will I ever participate in a thread where a member is requesting info on weather or not they should purchase a SAI or not. I will simply say NO dont do it not unless you are comfotable sending it back on a semi regular basis to include new rifles. To every question I had today the reps had a canned answer to the point I asked them if they memorized them or if they were reading them off a card. I felt like I was on tech supprt from India ony I was hearing an American voice. Bottom line is they will not give you any assurances that it will be fixed correctly. All they could tell me it does not cost anything to send the rifle in for an inspection. I may not know everything there is to know about these rifels but I consider myself a cut above the rest when it comes to general knowledge and building them. Since I have joined the forum I have soaked up everything I could and started to build my own SM actions. I think I did a dam good job. It sucks when you know more about the product than the person selling them. I specifically asked if the bolt was going to be replaced because its to soft and not propperly heat treated. They could not give me any garuntee it would. At the end of the conversation I said i want nothing done to the rifle before I am consulted with because if you intend on using a dremel tool to re contour the bolt I would rather do the work myself and install a GI bolt and a new barrel. At least I know it would be done right. I also ask the repair department rep if she knew what the rockwell hardness was supposed to be on the bolt she had no clue. I have pretty bad pitting on the barrel inder the handguard. I havenenver taken the rifle out in the rain. I have been told by two SAI employees that the krieger barrels are purchased in the white and parked when they are needed. It looks like mine was parked on top of the pitting and call me picky that is not acceptable to me considering what you are paying for. Parking over pitting is like putting a bandaid on cancer. Its always going to come back. Sorry for ranting but I do hope the two reps accept my invitation to come and visit the forum regardless of weather or not they participate. I am going to close by saying do yourself a favor and get a rifle built for you by one of the premire shops and use gi parts. You will be much happier in the long run.
 

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It should be apparent by now that the M1A "Civilian M14" Market is SAI's to lose. Under the original ownership, and up until, it seems, around 100,000 produced rifles, the Springfield Armory rifles were in general, excellent. The company used to take quality control seriously, and except for an occasionally incorrectly indexed barrel or some problems with initial runs of newly made commercial parts (like bolts and safeties) that they quickly made right, SAI was a pretty straight shooting outfit. Their warranty service covered, for the most part, their customers and people were satisfied.
CC
Price is a real object. SA offers a good product at a reasonable price, the standard. I suspect that's where they get most of their income.
If they offer only forged, USGI clone parts, they will have priced themselves out of a substantial market. Even perfect quality would not help imrove income much.

I bought one while I was waiting for my Fulton...just got the sweats and couldn't wait any longer. I shot the SA for a bit over three months before my Fulton arrived. My intent was to sell it and offset the cost of the more (much) costly rifle.
I was so pleased with it that I kept it instead.
There were some minor issues with both rifles, both companies helped promptly. I attribute both issues to the comparative complexity of the autoloader vs a bolt rifle.
 

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I bet someone from SA Inc. watches the forum... but I don't think it's anyone who really matters, probably some CSR, the one who says "Send it in, that's what the lifetime warranty is for." Unfortunately that doesn't do a lot.
 

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I'm not sure how big a company SA is, but I suspect they are big enough that the CEO likely knows more about accounting than firearms. When you say do they watch the board, who would they be. It is likely that someone that works for sringfield somewhere watches. The CEO of the company might refer to your pride and joy as a widget!
It has been interesting to see the guy from 7.62 chime in a few times. It seemed to me the response he got was very positive. Personally I think most people were so impressed that he did get in the discussion that they were willing to give him a break.
We have also had Andy from Smith Ent. get into the discussion here some. Same thing for him. I think he got very positive feedback.
One more thing. When I talk to people at gunshows and gun shops most people that don't know a lot still want a Springfield. They look at you kinda suspicious when you mention Smith, LRB or Fulton.
 

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I have and will continue to recommend Springfield. Most people that want one, can buy one and if they like it can move on to one of the more expensive makes. The thing is let them try one, then there hooked, or not. It'll be easer for them to sell a Springfield then one of the others. And not take to big a lose.
 

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There are people who work at SAI and know about this venue. That's not to say they follow it regularly. Time flies, guys. The '80's were 25-30 years ago. People retire, sell out, die, move on. SAI's a different company today the same way America's a different country. Some - though not all - of SAI's more recent QC problems are SAI's fault. But running out of USGI parts, well, that just happened. All things considered, I think the board has been scrupulously fair to SAI and will continue to be fair.
 

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Everything that 82nd said is my opinion also. I could not, in good conscience, recommend new Springfield M1A's to anyone.
+ 1 also. My first M14 type rifle was a M1A loaded model and it was a total turd with major problems. It almost turned me off the M14. I sent the rifle back with a pile of H&R parts and they built me a very sweet rifle. They replaced the receiver and barrel and used my bolt, op rod, and trigger group. This was a rifle in the low 124,000 serial # range.
 

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I would think in the current protracted economy a business would look at all their options and use the power that is the Internet to enhance/advance their bottom dollar. With all the info. and individual advances that are on youtube and other sites in regards to the individual making something that is an improvement over the original it would be foolish to not. Evolve or face extinction!
 

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To those of you who are interested, I just wrote my second please send the rifle back for inspection letter and I did extend to the repair department an invitation to surf the forum. I was a good boy Hawk I said nothing that would tarnish the reputation of the forum. I was a good boy. I am over it and looking forward to the day i get to beat it up again. Besides I have to build my AR lower this week as I said my WOA Match uppper will be here friday. I am happy one goes back one comes in its the way of the world.
With regard to it not being the 70-80's anymore I understand but they have had an awful long time to figure out how to build parts the right way. Look at all the other companies that are much smaller than SAI and they are getting it right if not off the bat after a couple of production runs. Most wont even release the parts until they have been tested. Bottom line is if you want to own a modern SAI M14 regardless of the model you choose you had better be prepared to send it back in for repair. When I first showed up at the range years three years ago the RO said i wuold need an amoroer in my pocket to own one of the SAI rifles. I realise yesterday he was not kidding. I am glad I figured out what I did on the forum over the last year and a half give or take a couple of months. I am glad a smith took the time to hold me by the hand and teach me how to build these rifles. Yes the ones I built with GI parts I do not have to ever work on again unless I am changing a barrel. I often defended SAI when guys would simply say "yeah get one and change everything to GI' I know understand why. I was very tempted to send in a GI SA bolt for them to install in my rifle. I didnt because it is more important to me that goes into an LRB build I am working on. Besides "thats why we have a lifetime warranty" All I have to do is make a call and before you know it I am printing a return overnight shipping lable. I can play that game all day long.
 

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I know for a fact that Dale Rader is a member of this forum.

Oh, and by the way...

I have a SAI M1A.

20,000 rounds down two pipes so far.

All stock (except for a Sadlak recoil spring guide)GI2
 
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