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Discussion Starter #1
I'm a proud new M1A owner (just sounded off earlier this evening!), and I'm wondering what's up here--

Rifle is an M1A Loaded. When I attempt to field strip without the hammer cocked, the trigger guard will bring the hammer into contact with the sear(?) but will not bring the hammer into engagement with the sear. They will touch but will not **** positively.

I'm used to my Garand that will **** the hammer firmly and positively when I rotate the trigger guard forward.

Is this a common characteristic of the M1A/M14 trigger group, or should I be calling up SAI right now? It doesn't seem like it causes any functional problems, but I don't want to worry about any sneaky issue with the trigger group being out of spec, etc.

Dunno if this has anything to do with the trigger group being slightly wobbly in the stock or not-- from what I've read that's more of a stock issue than a trigger group issue...

Thanks all!
 

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Too my knowledge the M1A's (and M14's) are designed to break down with the trigger already cocked and put on safe. At least that's the way I've always done it since 1968.... seems to me I read that in one of the manuals somewhere, but it could have been a Mini-14 manual...
 

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Sounds like a problem. Not sure where the problem is, but a problem none the less. The trigger guard should be able to fully c0ck the hammer.

When you call SA Inc. be ready to send in the entire rifle. Unless they say that's part of their new specs...
 

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Bill, I have what may be the same issue with a kit I received from CMP. I am waiting to hear from an armorer about it.

When cocking the hammer with my thumb, or via the trigger guard, the right side tine of the hammer comes in contact with the center top of the trigger before it has a chance to contact and engage the sear. As yourself, I have never had this issue with a Garand, which smoothly engage without contacting that part of the trigger assembly.

Will update when I hear anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
thanks for the info gents. I'll try to get SAI on the horn today and see what they have to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
update: spoke to a technician at SAI this afternoon. He said that it likely wouldn't be covered under warranty anyway, since the trigger guard cocking the hammer apparently isn't an "essential rifle function." But to his knowledge, like you guys mentioned above, it's SOP to break down the rifle with the hammer already cocked.

He went and checked 4 or 5 trigger groups they had there, and they all cocked the hammer with the trigger guard, with varying degrees of smoothness.

He said to call back Monday since all of the smiths were out of the shop for the day and we'll get a definitive answer about whether it's something to be concerned with and if so, what can be done about it.

The saga continues...

(full disclosure-- I'm a trigger snob. anything that could even begin to be wrong with my trigger and my hackles are up. I like my triggers pristine and smooth)

Speaking of triggers, I've seen it bounced around the boards here and in other places that 4.5 lbs is the lightest you can safely get from an M1A trigger. But I've read in other places that this is because 4.5 lbs is the minimum to be CMP-legal. I have another semi-auto rifle (not entirely made of steel and wood and that will remain nameless) that has a 2.5-lb pull, so I don't think the 4.5-lb limit can be fully explained by it being a "semi-auto." I've also seen the Rader adjustable triggers that could go as low as 1.5 lbs. So, what's the lightest trigger I'll be able to find for an M1A?
 

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Since I had one of my Poly Tech M-14's sitting here by the desk I pulled the trigger group out of the rifle. Its USGI Springfield trigger group cocked the hammer by opening the trigger guard as slick as can be.

7th
 

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Discussion Starter #8
No doubt, 7th. I'm sure that's how it's supposed to be. it's just frustrating because my hammer will touch the sear and will even get hung up by it a little by friction, but when you take the group out of the stock, da**ed if it doesn't snap down and bite your finger.

I even tried cocking by the trigger guard with the trigger group out of the rifle. the guard just doesn't have enough range of motion to do it.

anyhow, we'll see what they say on monday...
 

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i may be wrong but i think the 4.5lb set is also to help prevent bump fire or recoil fireing of the gun
i dont know what my SAI trigger pull weight is (higher than 4.5) but you can bump fire it almost at will if you dont use proper trigger controle and hold of the gun properly
 

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i may be wrong but i think the 4.5lb set is also to help prevent bump fire or recoil fireing of the gun
i dont know what my SAI trigger pull weight is (higher than 4.5) but you can bump fire it almost at will if you dont use proper trigger controle and hold of the gun properly
Agreed. First time mine doubled I thought it was the rifle.

Silly me. GI9
 

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The lowest for an M1/M14 trigger is 4.5 pounds for safety reasons. The only way to go lower safely is to run an adjustable Rader trigger that was made to go lower. Down side is, they're no longer made and if they come up for sale, usually are an arm and a leg now. Other rifles can be made to go lower and usually have triggers setup to do this, the M1/M14 isn't those rifles. In order to tune the M1/M14 trigger you remove material from the hammer hooks, remove too much and you get a full auto rifle, allowing that to happen is a felony. So, for safety and for your rear end's sake (don't pick up the soap), 4.5 pounds is the lowest and most gunsmiths like to err on the high side of that going with 4.75 or 5 pounds.
 

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No doubt, 7th. I'm sure that's how it's supposed to be. it's just frustrating because my hammer will touch the sear and will even get hung up by it a little by friction, but when you take the group out of the stock, da**ed if it doesn't snap down and bite your finger.

I even tried cocking by the trigger guard with the trigger group out of the rifle. the guard just doesn't have enough range of motion to do it.

anyhow, we'll see what they say on monday...
-------------------------

Bill,

Can you see what is preventing the trigger guard from moving enough to **** the hammer?
Maybe the trigger guard 'loop' is oversized, or something on the 'floor plate' is stopping the TG movement.
Being able to describe that would help the SAI techs to understand what is happening.

Ask them if there are any measurements that you check.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
 

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I have always removed the trigger assemby with it already cocked. I just tried cocking it with the trigger guard and it was smooth and clicked right in. This is a new SAI commercial trigger assembly. SAI should replace it under warranty if it isn't functioning properly, obviously something is hanging up somewhere. Tell them you don't feel safe shooting it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hey All--

Just talked to the folks at SAI. They said that the trigger guard should smoothly **** the hammer when the TG leaves the factory and to just send in the TG and they'll get it in spec. They gave me a shipping label and said they'd touch up the sear for me while they're at it.

Looking like SAI's back-end service is going to make up for a front-end shortfall... will let you folks know the end result when the TG comes back.

Thanks for the help!
 

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O!Pioneer;660565 I like my triggers pristine and smooth Speaking of triggers said:
As light as you want to make it, without going random on you. As stated, most smithy's won't go too much lower then 4.5 That said, I have one of mine set-up with a crisp, clean, smooth, and no creep break at 3 lbs. It has yet to let go with an AD. Round count on the job is 768. Three is extremely light though, and I am not recommending anyone do this to their rifles. I come from a background of shooting 2 1/4 lb. 1911's in competition though too. You just think about loosing a shot, and it is already sent. You have no recollection of actually pulling the trigger. The down side to to having a trigger this light in the M14, is the noticeable downloading and length of travel that was present in it to begin with, is very little. What I call stage one of loading the trigger with pressure is almost imperceptable, to the breaking point. This way, I do not have to hold on target, hold on target, start downloading the trigger, check sights, keep downloading, and checking, till the steady pressure breaks the shot. Done properly, a surprise every time. Now, I see it, and snap the trigger quickly. It works great for rapid fire and shot to shot pick-up placement, like accurate snake eye double taps.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah I'm used to the 2.5 pound AR trigger and the set trigger on a homemade boltie set to a hair. Haven't had a gauge on it, but it's light as light can be. Definitely used to the 'trigger finger safety.'

I really like the looks of the Rader. It surprises me they're not made anymore. It seems like there'd be a good healthy market for them.
 

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I really like the looks of the Rader. It surprises me they're not made anymore. It seems like there'd be a good healthy market for them.
Dale Rader no longer works for SA Inc. so SA Inc. can no longer make or sell them.

I looked into getting one when they were available but at that time USGI triggers were about $175-$200 tuned and it was $350 and made of commercial parts. Who knows, maybe in the future I'll come upon one and grab it up to try out.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Looks like SAI is just going to replace the whole group. I'm not complaining. They wanted to know if I wanted to replace the loaded tuned group for a NM tuned group. Anyone have any experience with the difference? Is the SAI national match group $35 better? I had always thought that the loaded trigger was tuned to national match specs, but I guess I'm wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Shame that you need to unload more coin just to get somebody to do a more than so-so job... That said, my trigger snobbery is likely going to make me drop the $35.
 
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