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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
First off. I'll be very clear - I am NOT interested in making a full auto rifle or doing anything illegal.

Now that that is out of the way..

I'm also not interested in the current dummy kits that are out there. I would like to modify actual parts and fab something up myself.

I've seen a couple of pic of this having been done in my travels - has anyone here done it?

If so, could you post some details?

It looks like I need the connector, sear release, selector switch, selector shaft, spring and pin.

It also looks like I need to chop the sear release in some way and weld or fab something, but I can't make it out from the pics I've found.

Another question - Which of these parts, if any, would be illegal for me to own? I assume just an actual M14 receiver.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as the last thing I want is to skirt the law in any way and/or risk the forum...

Thanks in advance for the help, and apologies if this is inappropriate - feel free to remove the thread if it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I put a call in to the ATF - and was transferred to a NFA specialist...

I left a detailed message stating that I wanted to create a non-full auto cosmetic replica of an M14 using M14 parts that would be added to my M1a.

I said that it appears that the M14 receiver is the only NFA item and since I have the M1a semi-auto, it would appear that what I want to do is within the law as long as I'm not trying to make the gun full auto... but I wanted to know the specifics of the law before I proceed.

I left my info - I'll let you guys know the outcome if / when he calls back... or if the ATF shows up at my house for dinner.. ;)
 

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Have you searched the ATF website for DEWATS regulations?

I have been waiting 14 years for them to reply to a letter and just checked the mailbox
Still not down there

I used to know what it took to create a dummy out of a parts set but their laws and regs change daily , not being sure I can not advise you on what is allowable
 

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Just get a Hawk dummy kit and install it.
I agree.

Just think back as to all the guys who have claimed that even Hawk's Kits were Verboten!

GI5

I really tend to doubt BATFE is going to give a thumbs-up to a 'question' only such as was asked...without Schematics, Photos, etc. as to what is specifically proposed...it's just way too open-ended for BATFE to issue any kind of opinion letter, which...we all should recall, is Not Binding Anyhow!
The BATFE has been bitten before on similar issues...and no doubt is not eager to do a redux!

GI5

CAVman in WYoming
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies guys - I realize this is a hot topic from my searches here at the forum... but I figured I may as well make them work for my tax dollars.

I was looking at Hawk's kits, and thats the way I'm leaning if I don't get an answer...

The thing is, being an engineer, its just too fun to tinker and fab my own DIY stuff... then again - like you all pointed out - I'm also not really looking for any trouble!
 

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Sheeze I thought you were wanting to build a display rifle sorry bout that

This one is easy a hawk kit does nicely
 

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I was once told by an ATF agent during a phone call to the local Compliance branch that it was OK to have an M1 Carbine with a M2 trigger housing and some M2 parts, including the switch, as long as the carbine could not be fired FA. Some parts like the connector and M2 hammer are restricted from use in the M1. On the other hand, the AR15 has specific restrictions in ATF regulations that do not allow FA parts whether it shoots FA or not. The M1A/M14 commercial semi-auto rifle has no restrictions in the regulations - as long as it does not fire FA. Dummy selector kits are not mentioned. However, someone posted a thread recently that said the BATF confiscated an M1A that had a dummy kit installed claiming it was an attempt to convert the rifle to FA. That is a stretch and I think it would be very hard for them to prove it in court. I wouldn't want to be the one trying to prove my case however. I have dummy selector locks on some of my rifles. I think they look neat and I am sure they are legal or I wouldn't have them. Trying to sort out the BATF on the subject boggles the mind....
 

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I put a call in to the ATF - and was transferred to a NFA specialist...

I left a detailed message stating that I wanted to create a non-full auto cosmetic replica of an M14 using M14 parts that would be added to my M1a.

I said that it appears that the M14 receiver is the only NFA item and since I have the M1a semi-auto, it would appear that what I want to do is within the law as long as I'm not trying to make the gun full auto... but I wanted to know the specifics of the law before I proceed.

I left my info - I'll let you guys know the outcome if / when he calls back... or if the ATF shows up at my house for dinner.. ;)


Any communication that you receive of an affirmative nature to your plan, copy it and keep it. For the interpretative opinion may be good only until the ink dries on it. Don't re-invent the wheel at your possible peril. Just get a Sparrowhawk kit. Do something else with your DIY creative juices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Any communication that you receive of an affirmative nature to your plan, copy it and keep it. For the interpretative opinion may be good only until the ink dries on it. Don't re-invent the wheel at your possible peril. Just get a Sparrowhawk kit. Do something else with your DIY creative juices.
Yeah... I'm very rapidly coming to that conclusion.. I'm definitely not the guy to be a test case... I hadn't realized that someone had their M1a confiscated...

Sparrow-hawk it is...
 

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No new news in my post here but worth mentioning that nobody wants to be 'that case law guy'.

Even if all the internet wisdom and a Customer Service Rep says it is 'OK', if you get some ATFE agent out on the range who thinks different, you might become 'that case law guy' in: AFTE v. (insert your name here). Not worth the exposure/time/money/publicity. Always side on caution. If I am asking questions about doing anything in any arena, then the answer for me is automatically "No don't do it" - that works almost every time.
 

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Test Case

Howdy Buckeroos,

About being a test case.

In the 70's a close friend of mine was selling fired/dewatted LAW's at gun shows in Southern California as curios.

He purchased them from the Federal government on auction and had the paper work showing the purchase (in California), and that they were scrap.

One evening, the front door was kicked open and members of twenty-seven different agencies poured in and threw him and his wife to the kitchen floor.

He lost his Rockwell high security clearance, lost his half of a gun shop and lost his house.
He had a hard time getting a job at a gas station.

A year later the judge threw out the case and scolded the agencies involved.

No more security clearance, no more gunshop, no more house.

He wound up working for a catering truck supplier.

It tainted the rest of his life.

Keep yer powder dry,

John
 

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No new news in my post here but worth mentioning that nobody wants to be 'that case law guy'.

Even if all the internet wisdom and a Customer Service Rep says it is 'OK', if you get some ATFE agent out on the range who thinks different, you might become 'that case law guy' in: AFTE v. (insert your name here). Not worth the exposure/time/money/publicity. Always side on caution. If I am asking questions about doing anything in any arena, then the answer for me is automatically "No don't do it" - that works almost every time.
NO problem! Just use the "Hillary Defense", and explain to the nice ATF agent that it was never your INTENT to create a full-auto weapon. He should then give you back your weapon, pat you on the head, and send you on your way.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No call back yet..

But - My decision was made last night - I ordered one of Hawks kits..

It will stay on my nice display M14 stock at home... I'll take the Civilian M1a Stock to the range... I'n definitely not that guy... GI3
 

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No call back yet..

But - My decision was made last night - I ordered one of Hawks kits..

It will stay on my nice display M14 stock at home... I'll take the Civilian M1a Stock to the range... I'n definitely not that guy... GI3

A wise decision, methinks. Best wishes!
 

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Has the ATF ever issued a definitive letter stating that Hawk's-style dummy selector kits are legal? I keep one on my M1A, and I LOVE it, but I never really thought to ask about a letter.
 

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Trying to get the BATF to commit anything in writing is like doing the same with the IRS or any government agency for that matter. None of them want to stick their neck out since their vague regulations are so convoluted and contradictory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just closing the loop on this - Nope, never got a return call from the ATF..

Hawk's Dummy kit is soooo sweet... :)

That, a GI Walnut stock (refinished just enough to show all the dents and dings and some grain), and a GI handguard.. so nice.

Can't wait to show my father (USMC)..
 
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