M14 Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
What is the object of working up a load?

When I develope a load Im looking for accuracy and comfortable to shoot but I read guys increasing or decreasing powder and Im not sure why

Not trying to be a smart A** just dont understand
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,602 Posts
In my case I'm looking for the tightest group at the highest velocity possible. Depending on the purpose of the load I will more or less picky about the group size. For instance, if the load is for hunting elk I will be more concerned with getting the velocity that I want than getting a small group. On the other hand, if I want something that has pin point accuracy I won't worry too much about velocity unless I'm shooting long range (600 yards or more) in which case I need to keep the bullets at supersonic speeds for as long as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Im working on loads for my 7MM Mag and my 44 MAG.

The 44 looking for accurracy and comfort (non wrist breaking)

7 long range tight group

thanks for the reply
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,997 Posts
All Barrels Pistol or Rifle will have a Sweet Spot
It will show Great preference over 1 projectile over another 1 powder and weight charge of powder over others
1 of my M1s love 150 gr Hornady FMJBT with AA2520 light loads while another hates them both
It is just a way of fine tuning and having fun
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
All Barrels Pistol or Rifle will have a Sweet Spot
It will show Great preference over 1 projectile over another 1 powder and weight charge of powder over others
Depending on the rifle, you can have a few sweet spots. The most rational, for me anyway, explanation I heard involves barrel harmonics. Every barrel is different, and has its own "tuning" range, so to speak.

I have a buddy who got one of his friends in the audio business to hook up an ocilloscope to a test barrel. And then they went shooting.

His experiment was to find the best length barrel for the caliber, and they kept cutting down the barrel until the sine waves coincided. One hellaciously accurate barrel.

We don't cut our barrels, so we do the tuning with bullets, powder and velocity. At the right velocity, the barrel is in tune with minimal vibration. And that is where you get the best groups.

You will probably find a couple of these spots somewhere between the minimum and maximum published loads. Sometimes the best is just above the maximum. Sometimes it will pattern like a shotgun with some powders, and shoot a ragged hole with others. Same with bullets - design and weight make a difference.

Keep in mind that the same powder can vary from lot to lot, so when you run out of your favorite, you get to start development again with the new lot.

This is the one time you need to be glued to a bench. You are trying to see how the rifle shoots, not how you shoot. A good stable rest and good weather with little to no wind are important for load development.

Keep everything as consistent as possible. Same primers, brass trimmed to same length, close to same weight, consistent bullet seating, crimps, etc. You will never get everything exactly the same, but a big part of reloading for accuracy is eliminating all the variables you can that can effect accuracy. And differences can effect accuracy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Great explanation, next Q. how many rounds do you load with a certain receipe to compare, ie. 10-20 etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
515 Posts
Im working on loads for my 7MM Mag and my 44 MAG.

The 44 looking for accurracy and comfort (non wrist breaking)

7 long range tight group

thanks for the reply
Try 62-63 grains of RL22 with the 162 AMax bullet. I don't remember the oal I used, but it was quite a bit longer than standard. As long as you can get it while still fitting your mag and as close to the lands as you can. As always, start lower and work your way up, but 63 grains was a safe load in my Sendero and clocked just under 3100 feet/sec, and easily cleaned the regular 1000 yard target shot with a Harris bipod. Never shot on an F class target, it was just for fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,384 Posts
Im working on loads for my 7MM Mag and my 44 MAG.

The 44 looking for accurracy and comfort (non wrist breaking)

7 long range tight group

thanks for the reply

Been MANY years since I did load development with the .44 Mag. I primarily used 240g SWC cast bullets back then (still do) and found that my most accurate loads were with stout charges of 2400 powder. Of course, powder and bullet choices have progressed much since then but the loads have worked so well for me, over the years, that I just haven't bothered to change them. I can still pull rounds, loaded in the late 70s, from a can and drill the ten ring on the 50yd bullseye target from my 4" M29. Several deer have fallen to the same loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
I usually make up 10 rounds per load and do two things at once..........run them through the Chrono and accuracy test in 10 round lots. This assures that I'm not just lucky with any particular 3-5 round group and gives a much better statistical basis for what I'm measuring.

Eagle 1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
558 Posts
What is the object of working up a load?

When I develope a load Im looking for accuracy and comfortable to shoot but I read guys increasing or decreasing powder and Im not sure why
If you develop loads, how do you do it if you are not adjusting the charge? Not trying to be a smart-a$$ either, but your question seems like a contradiction. What exactly do you do when you develop a load...? Charge weight is probably the single most important variable of concern when load development takes place. Yes there are others to be concerned with, but that's the one by-and-large getting the most play...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,978 Posts
consistency in the steps you follow and the materials you use along with good records

Consistency - use brass that is as uniform as possible (same number of resizings, trimmed to the same length, same headstamp/lot if at all possible, same brand/type of primers, same can of powder, same bullets, dies set up the same way each time you reload

vary the powder - starting down around the minimum recommended powder amount and increased by 0.2 or 0.3 grain increments (the only variable in you should "vary" in your first series). You shoot these rounds, keeping track/records of which loads you shot (write it on the targets).

If you don't get something you (or your rifle) likes then try a different powder or a different bullet or a different primer type.

Just because its a 150 grain bullet doesn't make them interchangeable. They have different types of bases, noses, contact length on the lands and different internal construction.

Powders have different burn rates which creates different pressures which create different vibration in the barrel.

I used to shoot with a guy who bought a brand new Winchester M70 featherweight in 30.06. He bought Remington, Federal and Winchester ammo in bullet weights from 150 through 220 grains in both round nose and pointed bullets. Lousy groups (the size of your open hand at 100 yds) and lots of frustration began. We tried all the different bullets and powders we could find in reloads and still no success. He was downright sick about trading off his Rem. M742 for a gun that wouldn't shoot. By luck I had almost 3 boxes of 30.06 reloads I'd loaded for my father in law's Rem. 742. Sierra 180 grain flat based spitser bullets, IMR 4350 powder and Federal Benchrest primers (exact powder amount no longer remembered - it was 30 years ago). We took a box out the next time we went shooting at he shot dime sized 3 shot groups at 100 yds. with it. Two bullets tore one hole and the third bullet had just a sliver of paper between the hole it made and the hole the other two bullets made. These groups repeated over and over till the box of shells was gone. He went by the local gunstore that afternoon and bought IMR4350 powder, Sierra 180 grn. spitser flat based bullets and had them special order the primers.

I've run across two rifles like that in my life. You spend hours and hours and who knows how many dollars trying all kinds of combinations and then your run across the one load that makes the rifle shoot like a high dollar target rifle.

Good luck with your efforts. Go slow, be safe.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,325 Posts
How many ?

Great explanation, next Q. how many rounds do you load with a certain receipe to compare, ie. 10-20 etc.
When working a new load, I load 75 rounds....exactly alike in every way. This will allow me to exit most variables by finding the
extreme spread:
standard deviation:
velocity:
best group:

Take 5 of each and shoot each into a group. Measure group size and ES of each.

Get an average of the composite as if one 15 shot group.

Shoot the next 15 rounds at random into 3 groups, 5 shots each.

Repeat above step with last set of 15 rounds.

Do the same with these groups, making into one single 45 shot group.

Compare the three 15 shot groups.

They should be the same.

If they are not, then the derivative of pressure curve is not flat enough and you haven't found your load yet or your sweet spot.

I learned this from Felix over at cast boolits.com and my Grandfather used a similar approach.

I then take the remaining 30 rounds and fire them into three groups of ten rounds each....the very best I can....If they group between 1 and 1 1/4--1 1/2 inches...I will make a note and call that experiment GTG.....................I learned this from Art Luppino

Then,...I will play with the powder and seating depth for this load....But, never both at once !!!.........when satisfied and MOA is achieved...I will move on to the next weight bullet...after trying the previous one in all my rifles.

The goal is to find the load that will shoot equally well in all my rifles.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top