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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Restrictions on the 2A can only be enforced if LEO are available to enforce them. I personally would rather be free than safe. Remember that LEO are an armed faction the government, whether it be local, state, or federal. The weaker the government, the better the country. This post is mostly a thought experiment.

What percentage of LEOs are part of unions? What do those unions put their money towards? What policies do the recipients of millions of dollars from police unions support?

Why do LEOs get exceptions to most anti-2A legislation?

What crimes are currently the focus of the majority LEO and how does that benefit you and your freedoms?

Do you honestly think federal LEO have your rights and freedoms as a core belief?

Has LEO selectively enforced laws based on a person’s economic status, beliefs, or race? Stop on this one, and think the opposite of what the MSM has portrayed. Stop again, and consider what MSM has portrayed. How would this impact enforcement of gun laws?

How would you be treated by LEO if you were in possession of a firearm at a location that they deemed as illegal, but you only carried to protect yourself, your family, and others?
 

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Interesting perspective. I would only say if you take that process to its logical conclusion, say defund/abolish all LE, where would that leave the country? One word, chaos.
This would be followed by martial law after the no doubt quick and large explosion of crime, violence and mayhem.
Under martial law we would be in a situation much less preferred than the current one.
Just a thought.
 

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Heck, I was bagged searched going into the S.Security court couple of years ago.
The ''deputy'' found a small pocket knife I had forgotten about.
He puts it back and tells me to go back outside and put the knife in my truck.
The end !
same thing at a courthouse . a p-38 can opener.
 

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Heck, I was bagged searched going into the S.Security court couple of years ago.
The ''deputy'' found a small pocket knife I had forgotten about.
He puts it back and tells me to go back outside and put the knife in my truck.
The end !
That’s good Leo! I don’t have any problems with police, just be respectful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
same thing at a courthouse . a p-38 can opener.
I assume this is in a state with gun friendly laws.

What if you had the gun in the courthouse?

How would you have been treated by LEO in California, New York, or in the city of Chicago?
What if California type laws spread to federal laws, would they treat you the same?
 

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Interesting perspective. I would only say if you take that process to its logical conclusion, say defund/abolish all LE, where would that leave the country?
I'm not sure if there's a large (read: large enough to matter) group of people that want to entirely abolish police. The service the police provides is obvious and necessary. Sure, there's some splinter of folks that want to take the "defunding" to an extreme, but the real point of "defund" is to a) demilitarize the police - some departments have so much cash they are buying tanks and APCs, often where they have cleverly written "RESCUE" on the sides of to pretend it's okay to use this on citizens...
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...b) to take some of the load off of police, doing things they clearly aren't trained well enough to do or shouldn't have to do at all (i.e. clearing out homeless camps, facial-recognition-surveillance of citizens). Yes, this cartoon is oversimplifying things, but it's a cartoon, not an essay. It gets my basic point across.
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...and c) to hopefully restribute gov't funds to the people who need it more.
449680
 

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Heck, I was bagged searched going into the S.Security court couple of years ago.
The ''deputy'' found a small pocket knife I had forgotten about.
He puts it back and tells me to go back outside and put the knife in my truck.
The end !
Same here, was going in to renew my Pistol License, went thru an Xray and pinged my 2" pocket knife. LE made me take it out to my car, told him why I was there, didnt matter get that knife out of here! I was not armed however.
 

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I'm not sure if there's a large (read: large enough to matter) group of people that want to entirely abolish police. The service the police provides is obvious and necessary. Sure, there's some splinter of folks that want to take the "defunding" to an extreme, but the real point of "defund" is to a) demilitarize the police - some departments have so much cash they are buying tanks and APCs, often where they have cleverly written "RESCUE" on the sides of to pretend it's okay to use this on citizens...
View attachment 449671 View attachment 449672 View attachment 449673 View attachment 449674 View attachment 449675 View attachment 449676 View attachment 449678 View attachment 449679


...b) to take some of the load off of police, doing things they clearly aren't trained well enough to do or shouldn't have to do at all (i.e. clearing out homeless camps). Yes, this cartoon is oversimplifying things, but it's a cartoon, not an essay. It gets my basic point across.
View attachment 449681

...and c) to hopefully restribute gov't funds to the people who need it more.
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This is why when political hacks say "the police are outgunned", I know its BS. However I dont see these vehicles as necessarily being used against/on citizens, but rather mostly as defensive in nature. LE shows up at a hostage scene, knowing the perp is armed with who knows what and want to protect their members from being shot. I got no problem with that.

The same argument against these types of vehicle's is used to vilify the AR15. It looks like a 'weapon of war', therefore its not necessary and is evil, and should be abolished.
 

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LE shows up at a hostage scene, knowing the perp is armed with who knows what and want to protect their members from being shot. I got no problem with that.
I don't know how often this happens where a tracked M113 APC is needed to do the job that an already-armored SWAT van can't do. Movies are cool and all, but I don't recall any real-world situations (in the US) where bad guys were lugging around RPGs and land mines. Now add in the comparative expenses of purchase, storage, and maintenance between the two vehicles and tell me it's a good use of money.

I don't think your comparison to the AR15 is a sound one. If the tanks and APCs were even remotely the same cost to buy/store/maintain as an armored SWAT van, you'd have a point. Private citizens are allowed to spend their money poorly. If a private citizen wants an M113 to defend his home (lol) or take it off-roading, go for it. Governments have an obligation to use our tax dollars responsibly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is why when political hacks say "the police are outgunned", I know its BS. However I dont see these vehicles as necessarily being used against/on citizens, but rather mostly as defensive in nature. LE shows up at a hostage scene, knowing the perp is armed with who knows what and want to protect their members from being shot. I got no problem with that.

The same argument against these types of vehicle's is used to vilify the AR15. It looks like a 'weapon of war', therefore its not necessary and is evil, and should be abolished.
Agreed. If LEO need "assault weapons" and "high capacity" magazines to defend themselves from those who wish them harm, then so do I. If LEO can have body armor and armored vehicles, then I should be able to as well.

Any LEO that disagree, should be defunded...
 

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I don't know how often this happens where a tracked M113 APC is needed to do the job that an already-armored SWAT van can't do. Movies are cool and all, but I don't recall any real-world situations (in the US) where bad guys were lugging around RPGs and land mines. Now add in the comparative expenses of purchase, storage, and maintenance between the two vehicles and tell me it's a good use of money.

I don't think your comparison to the AR15 is a sound one. If the tanks and APCs were even remotely the same cost to buy/store/maintain as an armored SWAT van, you'd have a point. Private citizens are allowed to spend their money poorly. If a private citizen wants an M113 to defend his home (lol) or take it off-roading, go for it. Governments have an obligation to use our tax dollars responsibly.
My point about the AR comparison has nothing to do with the cost of them, its the comparison of 'evil' items, they look evil and military, ban them.
And you misunderstood I guess my other point, that the armored rigs are for the protection of the LE in and around them, from the bad guys with guns.
 

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I was all blue lives matter until I seen LEO arresting law abiding citizens who stood up to antifa and BLM. Let's see the case of the fellows house surrendered and was taunted all night by BLM the cops arrested him. The vietnam vet who got pepper sprayed in the eyes by BLM in oregon the cops arrested him. The family who defended there house against BLM with a pistol and a AR...arrested. just remember this those cops will be the ones who arrest you and take your guns when biden tells them. I am done supporting them.
 

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I wouldn't want to live in this country without law enforcement but I've never felt the need to call them in my 52 years. I can handle anything thrown at me. I just need them to clean up the mess. If the left wants to defund the police have at it. They need them. I don't.
 

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It's almost like there's some cause and effect going on that leads to apcs being lent from government surplus to law enforcement agencies.


Interesting perspective. I would only say if you take that process to its logical conclusion, say defund/abolish all LE, where would that leave the country? One word, chaos.
This would be followed by martial law after the no doubt quick and large explosion of crime, violence and mayhem.
Under martial law we would be in a situation much less preferred than the current one.
Just a thought.
I think we would fall back to a more.. eh.. traditional(?) form of law enforcement. Which I personally don't think would be a bad thing.
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I was all blue lives matter until I seen LEO arresting law abiding citizens who stood up to antifa and BLM. Let's see the case of the fellows house surrendered and was taunted all night by BLM the cops arrested him. The vietnam vet who got pepper sprayed in the eyes by BLM in oregon the cops arrested him. The family who defended there house against BLM with a pistol and a AR...arrested. just remember this those cops will be the ones who arrest you and take your guns when biden tells them. I am done supporting them.
I think the guy in oregon was let go and not arrested but still law enforcement failed him as far as I can see. They allowed the scene to get to that level in the first place.
 

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Also, if there are no cops who is gonna make arrests? If BLM or Antifa decides to try to pull me out of my truck they're screwed.
 

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In my home town summit county akron ohio, they elected a female sheriff. Guess what she did when elected fired all of the auxiliary police officers who campaigned against her and fired a African american person who campaigned for her.
Now she has a unchecked amount of power.
 

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The armored vehicles are given to the PDs as part of government program.
The incident at Nakatomi Tower is a prime example as to why PDs need armored vehicles.
In my home town summit county akron ohio, they elected a female sheriff. Guess what she did when elected fired all of the auxiliary police officers who campaigned against her and fired a African american person who campaigned for her.
Now she has a unchecked amount of power.
I'm in Summit, I understand Fatharee fired the one guy because he was trying to change law enforcement to social work. As for the other officers, I didn't know about that. I heard she is fair and Barker are friends.
 

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The armored vehicles are given to the PDs as part of government program.
The incident at Nakatomi Tower is a prime example as to why PDs need armored vehicles.

I'm in Summit, I understand Fatharee fired the one guy because he was trying to change law enforcement to social work. As for the other officers, I didn't know about that. I heard she is fair and Barker are friends.
Well I stand corrected on that then.
 
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