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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a long shot as its not my rifle and I have just the pictures to go off.

Only been firing blanks for ages and check out the damage, any ideas , my thoughts are over pressure of course. not cleaning or lubing enough
there are 4 weapons using same ammo 2 receivers are damaged , a 3rd had broken the op rod, sorry no pic,

Any insight as what could cause these to happen, am trying to find out what powder/load they were using, they are used by reinactors

Cheers
 

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Firing a grenade launching round instead of a blank?
 

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I'm posting this information so that we are on the same sheet of music so please don't think I'm being rude or arrogant. I've read some information on the Internet where they show the wrong cartridge as being the M1909 blank cartridge and hopefully this will ensure that we are clear on which cartridge is which.


M1909 Blank Cartridge



M3 Grenade Launching Cartridge



The blank cartridge has about 12 grains of powder and it is designed to be function with a blank firing adapter which restricts the gases as they exit the muzzle so that the system will function.

The grenade cartridge has about 45 grains of powder and the gas valve is supposed to be positioned so that all the gases will go out the muzzle and not operate the system.
 

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I am in the VFW and American Legion. A couple of years ago there was an article in our state Badger Legionnaire about blank ammo damaging rifles. Well, I had some correspondence with a CMP armorer a few years back saying he has seen M1 rifles damaged just like the ones pictured from dirty, plugged up blank adapters. That plugged up adapter causes too much gas pressure and sends the bolt back with too much force, eventually cracking the back of the receiver.

So assuming the proper ammo was used by the OP, proper cleaning of the rifle might be in order. Also, what kind of blank firing adapter was being used?
 

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A lot of the BFA's have too small of a hole also do a search over at the CMP site for the size Our Legion rifles where having a lot of functioning trouble and I drilled them along with a good cleaning and they work good now

We use the crimped blanks......I guess since we didn't know any better we got away with it That's what the DOD sends us
 

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This keeps happening because some dumbass at the federal government released god knows how many "RIFLE GRENADE LAUNCHING CARTRIDGES" AS "BLANKS" and guys are firing them with blank adapters on their rifles not realizing they have about 5 times the power of a normal blank.

IF YOUR .30-06 BLANKS HAVE CRIMPED NECK PAINTED RED..DON'T FIRE THEM!!!!

Our local American Legion honor guard ruined so many M-1's with these things they had to get their 1903's back out of mothballs.
 
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My Father-in-Law was buried last year and the Legion used the crimped ammo. I mentioned to them that I thought they were grenade launching rounds and they told me that this was a "new design"... but they were headstamed LC 65, so I think they were actually issued the wrong ammo.

JWB
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have confirmed they used 12 grains of powder, but being where we are in location of the world alot of guys make their own blank.
I will try and find out what type of adaptor they were using, the info so far is very helpful, not for the guys who have 2 wall hangers now
 

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Some years ago the supply of M1909 Blank cartridges was exhausted and in the mid-1990s Lake City began manufacture of new cartridges for just this use. The new design utilized a rosette crimp instead of the traditional circular crimp of the original M1909 Blank. However, the rosette crimp is not the five petal crimp of the M3 Rifle Grenade cartridge, it is an eight petal crimp and intended to be noticeably different than the Rifle Grenade cartridge. Those not familiar with the Rifle Grenade cartridge could easily confuse the two.
 

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Now I'm really confused Ours have 6 crimps,straight not folded over no red paint
I had to cut one apart yesterday it was damaged and didn't want to put a live blank in the scrap Wish I would have known to weigh the charge ...probably less than 1/2 case fill
 

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The problem I ran across while inspecting and cleaning a local VFW's 12 M1's was all the BFD's were tac welded on which made it nearly impossible to do a good cleaning. It is my understanding that all such rifles have been recalled by the Army because of this problem, and replaced with rifles where you can remove the BFD's for cleaning.
 

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Wow, I'm really glad that the original poster came along, it has really pulled out some very important safety information.
 

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The problem I ran across while inspecting and cleaning a local VFW's 12 M1's was all the BFD's were tac welded on which made it nearly impossible to do a good cleaning. It is my understanding that all such rifles have been recalled by the Army because of this problem, and replaced with rifles where you can remove the BFD's for cleaning.
The ones I've seen are the same way; the gas cylinder lock is replaced by the BFA, which is spot welded in place to prevent anyone retrofitting the rifle to its original configuration and firing Ball ammo. That makes it nearly impossible to clean the bore and BFA.
 

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I am in the VFW and American Legion. A couple of years ago there was an article in our state Badger Legionnaire about blank ammo damaging rifles. Well, I had some correspondence with a CMP armorer a few years back saying he has seen M1 rifles damaged just like the ones pictured from dirty, plugged up blank adapters. That plugged up adapter causes too much gas pressure and sends the bolt back with too much force, eventually cracking the back of the receiver.

So assuming the proper ammo was used by the OP, proper cleaning of the rifle might be in order. Also, what kind of blank firing adapter was being used?
this doesn't make any sense if you read the previous posts.

If they are using the proper cartridge (the m1909 blanks) then the adapter is meant to force MORE gas into the system , not less.

Im not an expert but based on the facts it sounds like people are using grenade launcher rounds with the blank adapter and forcing a huge amount of pressure through their gun.
 

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this doesn't make any sense if you read the previous posts.

If they are using the proper cartridge (the m1909 blanks) then the adapter is meant to force MORE gas into the system , not less.

Im not an expert but based on the facts it sounds like people are using grenade launcher rounds with the blank adapter and forcing a huge amount of pressure through their gun.
There is a hole in the end of the blank adapter to bleed off some of the gas pressure. If this hole gets plugged, too much pressure on the gas system, resulting in excessive bolt velocities.
 

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I misspoke above I was speaking from memory. I'm home now, here is the blank example used in my Father-in-Law's funeral. 6 petals, mfg 2004. Presumably the "new design" blank ctg.

JWB
I was speaking from memory but it does appear to be a six petal instead of eight. Clearly different in appearance though from the five petal Rifle Grenade cartridge. Thanks for posting the photo.
 
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