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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With the state of the art in warfare today, I really do not think anyone will force a beach landing that is directly opposed ever again. Certainly not on the scale of Normandy or Saipan etc.

But I do wonder if we have the capability to transport troops from ship to shore, even unopposed, in any sea condition like they experienced on that June 6th in 1944. Can our equipment land troops and equipment through surf like that after plunging through rough water for several miles?

Could we put Stryker size vehicles into modern day Higgins style boats?

What is the state of our amphibious capability today?
 

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Are you joking? todays generation can't figure out how to walk around the block with out google maps on there I phone or figure out which bathroom to use. Hell just look at how they lowered the standard in basic training the drill Sargents aren't even allowed to shark attack them... ... .. you think they can assault a german MG42 with mortar rounds landing in front of them?

Our current state of amphibious capabilities U.S. Marines ID all 9 people killed in sea-tank sinking
 

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The greater problem is creating a force to conduct the operation, and that cannot be done. We are defended today by less than 1% of our population. Only that 1% is willing to serve. Attempting to force greater numbers to serve will not be successful. We are doomed and just haven't yet reached the point where we will acknowledge it.
 

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The men who fought in WW2 were coming out of the great depression and were used to enduring tough times. Kids today think the world is ending if they have to move out of their mom's basement. We do have some good people in our military and a lot of technology but, a force of that size and level of commitment, I really have my doubts it could happen.
 

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This thread poses a good question, and I don't have an answer to it. For the longest time, I've had the opinion we would not be able to win a serious battle against a truly good mechanized force...but lately I've begun to change that opinion. If we had to draft ppl, we wouldn't be able to draft the less educated - with todays weaponry, we would have to draft quality ppl. I don't subscribe to the theory of just because someone has had a cush life with lot's of money, that they couldn't perform well under duress. In fact, I believe the more well to do may perform better actually. Ppl with means are healthier, and that's what is needed to endure harsh conditions. I think a rich man with education can sit in a wet fox hole as well as a poor and uneducated person. I think the bigger question is this...Would the American public and news media be able to handle the numbers of dead ? If we would draft quality ppl, I think we could win anything. I'm not sure we would draft the well to do and educated though.
 

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I made 5 deployments with the 15th MEU (SOC) and I can tell you that the Marines can land a Battalion on the beaches in pretty good order. One AAV that sunk doesn't mean that they all sink. In my 20+ years in the Corps I only heard of something like 4 or 5 AAVs sinking, more often than not the Marines get out in time or the vehicle sinks in shallow enough water to be able to escape after they hit the bottom. This happened last year (July 2020) and they've found that the equipment wasn't properly maintained and it wasn't taken off line when they found that it didn't meet deployment standards. The C.O. of the MEU and the Battalion Landing Team were relieved of command for not performing their duties properly. I can tell you from experience that relieving a C.O. for loss of trust and confidence in his ability to command is a career ending issue and it usually means that the C.O. was probably more interested in looking good on paper rather then being able to perform the mission properly (which includes conservation of manpower - i.e., taking care of your Marines so that they can do the job).
 

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I doubt if you would need 5,000 ships since the firepower at the smaller unit level is far superior to anything that we had during WWII. The kind of damage and destruction that the average squad can inflict (Marine or Army) is probably equivalent to what a battalion could do during WWII. The max bomb load for a B17 bomber was 8,000 lbs, a modern B1 bomber can carry 125,000 lbs. The average Marine squad will carry an AT4 rocket that can penetrate up to 16 inches of armor as opposed to the old WWII Bazooka that could only handle about 3.5 inches of armor. The increase capability of the average small unit means that far less people would be needed to perform the same kind of invasion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks everyone, All good responses.

Yet what I was trying to ask in the OP was whether or not we (Army or Marines) could bring anyone to the beach in an unopposed landing in the sea conditions present on D-Day at Normandy. It was pretty rough that day.

The videos I see of amphibious exercises all seem to be in pretty flat water on sunny days; troops or tanks either one.

I am amazed that USMC has tried to up-date/up-grade the tracked AACV without succeeding since the mid 1980s, (what is that, 25-30 years?) Now they are acquiring a Stryker-like wheeled amphioxus combat vehicle to bring troops to the beach. This cannot be a step forward, or even just a side-step.
 

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Actually it looks like they just finished choosing the ACV in Dec. of 2020 and they say it will be fully deployed somewhere around 2028.

As I said, I've seen many amphibious landings including in the Arabian Gulf (the UAE and Kuwait) and the ocean wasn't exactly flat in either place but it wasn't like the Atlantic was on D-Day.
 
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I doubt if you would need 5,000 ships since the firepower at the smaller unit level is far superior to anything that we had during WWII. The kind of damage and destruction that the average squad can inflict (Marine or Army) is probably equivalent to what a battalion could do during WWII. The max bomb load for a B17 bomber was 8,000 lbs, a modern B1 bomber can carry 125,000 lbs. The average Marine squad will carry an AT4 rocket that can penetrate up to 16 inches of armor as opposed to the old WWII Bazooka that could only handle about 3.5 inches of armor. The increase capability of the average small unit means that far less people would be needed to perform the same kind of invasion.
I may have misunderstood the op's question. I thought he meant do it the same way we did it in 1944.
 

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That's a loaded question... Todays military is quite different than what happened durning D day!!! The technology of today would most likely make that type of landing impossible.. The fire power of today's squad compared to those days are quite different...

The bigger question in my little mind and limited intellect, would this generation step up to the plate and perform like the greatest generation!!! We just don't have enough good people to step up to the plate.. I hope I'm wrong but the signs are not good right now.!!!

Carry On !!!
 

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Perhaps the wrong impression, but having been an instructor at University for some years after my retirement from a mining equipment firm, I found the average student of military age was lacking in any dedication or "drive" even to complete his studies on time or correctly. That environment versus a life threatening one may bring these people to rethink their attitude, but I wonder?? As for the equipment and it's design, applications, etc. I have no doubt that such issues can be corrected in short order with todays engineering standards and skilled work forces available. Keep in mind that we were sorely equipped at the outset of WWII from both a manpower and equipment requirements and the ability for American industry to crank out the huge number of planes, tanks, ships, small arms, etc. was critically important for the outcome of WWII, that is we won!!! Have no clue at to the plans the Pentagon may have, but I doubt a mass coastal landing is not one they are planning for in the immediate future, but stranger things have happened.
 

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In my opinion, considering the number of nation with nuclear capabilities, a WW conflict would soon escalate to a point where landing troops on any beach or airport would be the least of our problem.
 

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D day I think the plan was to put more men on the beach faster then the Germans could shoot them .no I don't think it would ever happen again .
 

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That's a loaded question... Todays military is quite different than what happened durning D day!!! The technology of today would most likely make that type of landing impossible.. The fire power of today's squad compared to those days are quite different...

The bigger question in my little mind and limited intellect, would this generation step up to the plate and perform like the greatest generation!!! We just don't have enough good people to step up to the plate.. I hope I'm wrong but the signs are not good right now.!!!

Carry On !!!

During the first Gulf War, my dad was still active duty recruiter/retention. Many times after one of his units was activated he would tell me about all the soldiers that came to him and tried to get out of deployment. Many different reasons were given but the most common that I remember was that "they didn't join to go to war, but for free college". And this was 30 years ago. No way in my opinion would this generation step up.
 
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