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Just trying to get a lot of sets of eyes on it. Maybe me maybe not someone will spot the problem. Questions may seem weird, we are all just trying to help you.
 

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Good luck keeping a scope on a .308 that doesn't slide in the rings and rhyme with Unertl.

Supposedly the super snipers will hold POI But I'm not convinced.

I had a BR24 last 25 rounds on mine.
 

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I have a Bassett mount I use on my loaded, it has weaver steel rings and a old leupold VX3 3.5-10 x50 on it. I have shot it a good bit. Take it on and off returns to zero within reason. If a 308 ruined scopes the hunting would would be sol for sure.
 

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Since you have it apart already, have you looked closely to see if there is any place on the stock that may be rubbing? That bipod maybe putting pressure on the stock causing interference with barrel wobble and op-rod movement. Just guessing.
 

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Just to be clear, a scope mount should leave nothing more than a light contact mark in the matte finish of the receiver. It it leaves a shiny spot from rubbing, then the mount is vibrating. Something either doesn't fit properly or isn't secured.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Just to be clear, a scope mount should leave nothing more than a light contact mark in the matte finish of the receiver. It it leaves a shiny spot from rubbing, then the mount is vibrating. Something either doesn't fit properly or isn't secured.
No shiny spots. Just an outline where the matte finish has been kinda crushed under it.
 

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Was the 3" iron sight group with, or without the bipod?
I assume you shoot the M1 without a bipod. Correct?

I think the lack of draw pressure and the bipod mounted all the way forward is pushing the stock ferrule onto the gas cylinder. The opposite of how it needs to be.

I suggest you add two shims at the front of the receiver, one on each side.
Use a business card and double or triple it up.
About a half inch long.

Put them on the top of the stock, under the receiver as far forward as you can. (this is an attempt to get some draw pressure at the ferrule/front band.)
The trigger group may be a bit harder to close after this. That's good.

Move the bipod mount back toward the magazine well or shoot off of sand bags. Place the bags as far back as you can. My front rest sits about 3 to 4 inches in front of the magazine.

If I was having the troubles you are this is what I'd try.

No guarantees but it's a cheap test.

pg
USA2
 

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I would get rid of all variables, take off the mount and scope and bipod, shoot it with match grade ammo iron sights, from a bench (like KurtC said earlier) and establish what it's capable and then add the mount and scope and do a few groups, then ad the bi-pod and shoot some more groups.
 

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+1 I tried it too. Didn't work for me either. I'm a bipod bolt gun shooter.
I was going to dump my bi-pod until another forum member gave me a tip - always shoot with something soft under the bi-pod on the bench. So I added a slice of an old rug and the bi-pod shooting improved greatly. He said the bi-pod bouncing off the hard surface of the bench was causing my problems. Hope this helps....
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I'm just now beginning to realize how much more to bipod shooting there is. Apparently much more than flopping it down and jerking the trigger with my eyes closed. ;)

The stock shim is an interesting idea that I've heard murmurs about but I don't really understand. I'm guessing the idea is to raise the barrel and op rod out of the stock? If so, would it still be effective given how the forend is attached to the gas cylinder anyway?

Also, for the sake of conversation, can someone please explain "draw pressure" for me? I've heard it a few times here and I have no idea what that means.

I'm beginning to think that I'm going to have more questions before I have answers.

Thanks.
 

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[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YamGBxpqNI[/ame]
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Oh wow. That was a helpful video. Thank you! I'm pretty sure my rifle has almost all of those "don't want" issues (at least hand guard contact and negative draw pressure). The good news is that they look like fairly easily corrected problems.

These m14 pattern rifles definitely have lots of potential for subtle and hard to diagnose problems. It's definitely worth it if you get one that shoots though.
 

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Draw pressure and handguard contact are part of the accurizing process on a match grade rifle with a properly bedded sturdy stock. They mean very little on a rifle with a polymer stock.

M14 stocks were not designed for bipod use. You can get away with it with a heavy walnut or McMillan fiberglass, but little else. Attaching a bipod to a stock that flexes is pretty much useless for anything but suppressive fire.

The best M14 stocks for bipod use are those that don't flex, such as the SAGE EBR or the JAE.

Many people frown upon them, but the original M2 style bipods are not bad for minute of man accuracy, especially if you have a medium or heavy barrel. By attaching directly to the barrel, they actually increase draw pressure on the stock.

Lastly, an M14 is not a Remington that you can just plop on a sandbag or bipod and shoot acurately (unless it weighs 15 pounds, like an EBR). Basic Rifle Markmanship in the Army is about 40 hours worth of training an practice. Advanced Rifle Marksmanship is another 40 hours. Sniper training is additional several weeks.

Pour yourself a glass a bourbon and watch these:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O67xXyEG9D4[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2AfDmKopsQ&t=9s[/ame]

Read this: https://archive.org/stream/FM23-71#page/n0/mode/2up

This series pertains to the M1, but nearly everything applies to the M14:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoZ_usoFVSc[/ame]
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I thought I should post a finish to this thread so that we can all have some closure. I know it's been almost a year by now, but I want to say thanks and I feel like there's seldom any resolution from the OP. Cliff notes version: It works now and I owe a lot of that to your advise. Read on if you're curious.

I took all of y'all's advice and went to work. I first remounted the Sadlak base and scope, this time with some aluminum Mark 4 rings. Then I tried shimming the OEM stock- same lame stringing groups. Then I tried replacing the stock with a new archangel stock. Wala! 1.5" groups! I ran it like that for a few months and had consistently good accuracy out of it, but I wasn't too pleased with the weight and offhand ergonomics. It is a great stock at a great price, but if you're looking to build a precision rifle, then maybe a SAI M1A is just a bad place to start. Still, I knew then that the problems were mostly with the stock.

I did some reading, and decided to go laminated wood. I like the look and have always wanted one, so this seemed like a perfect application. I ordered a new one from Boyds. Then I planed down the dimensions some on the outside to make it handier, sanded and sealed it with lots of thinned polyeurothane inside and tung oil outside. Since I was there I also shimmed the front band, floated the hand guard, and installed an adjustable gas plug. I built up a kydex riser and took it out. The first 100yd group I fired is posted below, fired off of my backpack.

Now it seems to reliably shoot 165gr Sierra SPBT Gamekings within around 1.25 moa. Good enough for me. It can't hang with my bolt action rifles for accuracy, but it's fine for field hunting and I bet it'll kill pigs quite well.

I recently saw on another thread that Springfield should have a disclaimer that buyers should expect no more than 5moa accuracy out of an M1A, and I think I agree. But, after only shimming the front band, adding a vented gas plug, relieving the hand guard, replacing the stock, replacing it again, building up the comb, choosing a sturdy scope, refitting the mount a dozen or so times, trying a few hundred test loads, and watching hours and days of TonyBen videos, one can actually turn it into a reasonably accurate rifle.

Was it worth it? Probably not. Still, I'm pretty satisfied to have finally tamed this frustrating beast!

Thanks again for all of your help.
 

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Persevere to Endure should be the title for this thread.

You put a lot of effort into this rifle and that you now are able to enjoy it is quite a tribute to your desire to learn and patience.

How is it one nominates a rifle for M14 of the month again??
 
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