M14 Forum banner
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In my travels, I have come across some really neat ammo. My baby is the 6.5 Swedish for various reasons but I have gathered examples of rounds I think are interesting in other calibers. For years I never really cared or had a need for 308 or 7.62n since I already had a few rifles in 30-06. But then I fell into a pile of FALs for pennies on the dollar so reluctantly I had to adopt 7.62n myself.

I only collect calibers that I use. Of course I have other calibers but they only came into my possesion by accident. Here is an example of a really neat 7.62n I found:
Plant Finger Gesture Thumb Nail


To the untrained eye it just looks like a ball round, nothing special. But you'll notice that the bullet's "jacket" is far more yellow/goldish looking than regular M80 ball.. welp thats because its brass, not copper. But heres the kicker.. its a solid brass machined bullet. As anyone knows solid brass bullets became a no no outside of some very specialized African hunting calibers (think elefant & guns that dislocate your shoulder) so here's what happened as I have been told.

At some point uncle sugar thought that typical 7.62n ball ammo wasn't safe for overhead fire as a piece of jacket might come apart & injure a soldier in training. So these were made as MG rounds for that one sole purpose. A solid bullet obviously can't come apart. In execution the idea worked, but as many projects us peasants get to pay for they abandoned the idea & went back to M80 ball. The by product of this project was solid brass 7.62n rounds which had far more penetration than a typical ball round due to its construction.

You might hear someone refer to these as "poor man's AP" & while in my limited testing they do penetrate far more than M80, they don't hold a candle to M993.

Anyways.. the only known headstamp is FA 62 & the nato cross:
Sleeve Finger Wood Nail Thumb


If you find this interesting, I can dig through the cabinet & show more examples or neat ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,187 Posts
Interesting. I have two different editions of Small Arms Ammo Data Sheets, and neither one goes into any detail about this type of ammo. One lists both Ball and Tracer cartridges for Overhead Fire Missions, but it doesn't explain any differences between that and the standard cartridges. My understanding was that they typically used lots selected for accuracy and consistency for this purpose. Perhaps that criteria changed over the years.

Maybe @Lysander can provide some insight into the subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,776 Posts
In my travels, I have come across some really neat ammo. My baby is the 6.5 Swedish for various reasons but I have gathered examples of rounds I think are interesting in other calibers. For years I never really cared or had a need for 308 or 7.62n since I already had a few rifles in 30-06. But then I fell into a pile of FALs for pennies on the dollar so reluctantly I had to adopt 7.62n myself.

I only collect calibers that I use. Of course I have other calibers but they only came into my possesion by accident. Here is an example of a really neat 7.62n I found: View attachment 468544

To the untrained eye it just looks like a ball round, nothing special. But you'll notice that the bullet's "jacket" is far more yellow/goldish looking than regular M80 ball.. welp thats because its brass, not copper. But heres the kicker.. its a solid brass machined bullet. As anyone knows solid brass bullets became a no no outside of some very specialized African hunting calibers (think elefant & guns that dislocate your shoulder) so here's what happened as I have been told.

At some point uncle sugar thought that typical 7.62n ball ammo wasn't safe for overhead fire as a piece of jacket might come apart & injure a soldier in training. So these were made as MG rounds for that one sole purpose. A solid bullet obviously can't come apart. In execution the idea worked, but as many projects us peasants get to pay for they abandoned the idea & went back to M80 ball. The by product of this project was solid brass 7.62n rounds which had far more penetration than a typical ball round due to its construction.

You might hear someone refer to these as "poor man's AP" & while in my limited testing they do penetrate far more than M80, they don't hold a candle to M993.

Anyways.. the only known headstamp is FA 62 & the nato cross:
View attachment 468545

If you find this interesting, I can dig through the cabinet & show more examples or neat ammo.
There are other advantages to monolithic projectiles, generally they have the CG more in line with the axis of rotation.

As to your cartridge, it is a Cartridge, 7.62mm, Ball, Overhead Fire, XM178. There are two matching tracer versions, Cartridge, 7.62mm, Tracer, Overhead Fire, XM179 and Cartridge, 7.62mm, Tracer, Overhead Fire, XM180. The other more common problem in overhead fire is tracers have a base seal, usually a copper disk, that can cause injury, if you are very close to the muzzle.

ENGINEER DESIGN TEST OF EXPERIMENTAL 7.62mm AMMUNITION FOR OVERHEAD FIRE APPLICATIONS, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, October 1963

ABSTRACT
Frankford Arsenal has designed and manufactured a quantity of experimental 7.62-mm, solid ball and tracer bullets. Approximately 20,000 rounds assembled with these bullets, linked in the order of one tracer and four ball, were forwarded to Aberdeen Proving Ground for tests to determine suitability of the rounds for use as training ammunition in overhead fire applications. The experimental ammunition had shortcomings with respect to security of the trace mixture in the tracer bullets and ballistic mismatch of the centers of impact among the ball and tracer rounds. However, on the basis of over-all performance, the experimental cartridges, as presently developed, would be satisfactory for use in overhead fire applications over the standard 100-yard infiltration course outlined in Reference 3. Suitability of the rounds for overhead fire at longer ranges would depend on conditions of usage and safety clearance required in view of the mismatch of trajectories among ball and tracer bullets.


One of the reasons these two were not adopted was the tracer had a problem worse than jacket sheding or base seal ejection. The burning tracer composition had a habit of falling out the back end of the projectile. The cost of developing a secure trace mixture in the tracer and the general added cost of the projectiles was far greater than increasing the quality inspection and production controls, as well as modified base seals, on ball and tracer destined for use in the overhead fire application. This is the point at which OFA ammunition branches off from regular ball.

Rectangle Font Material property Screenshot Parallel
 

·
Retired Admin
I lost all of my rifles & handguns in a mishap on Rio Grande when the barge hit a sandbar and sank.
Joined
·
19,018 Posts
I had found some Frankford Arsenal old military surplus ammunition over the years, '62, '63 and 1965.

Frankford Arsenal, '62, [FA ], Boxer, zero crimp with black primer sealant. FA year (+)
Frankford Arsenal, '63, [FA ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. FA year (+)
Frankford Arsenal, '65,[ FA Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with purple primer sealant. MATCH FA year M 118

XXIV Corps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
1991 LC M61 GREEN tracers:

Wood Finger Office supplies Thumb Nail


Story behind these is during Desert Storm LC made green tracers to confuse the enemy. My Dad served in Storm so I asked him if he had ever saw these, to which he said he had not.

For no particular reason I love tracers & my favorite color is green so when I found these I bought every one they had. The few I have fired are 100% light rate.

The tip color is a dark almost purplish-brown. The only known headstamp is LC 91:

Saving Coin Money handling Currency Money


Heres what the box looks like:

Font Wood Rectangle Electric blue Commemorative plaque


Forgive the sideways phone camera pics, I'm not up to speed yet with this new phone.
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top