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Case headspace question

4761 Views 23 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  RAMMAC
So as you are well aware I have been setting up a reloading bench and I am getting ready to make another move on some more equipment. I have heard it mentioned several times in the past couple of weeks not to overlook the 'case headspace". I am not sure I understand exactly what the definition of case headspace is. I am assuming a variety of tools are used to ensure that the case headspace does not go below sammi minimum. If I am wrong please correct me. I am also assuming that the tool or combination of tools allows you to custom tailor the your brass to your chamber hs. For example, if one of my rifles has a chamber HS of 1.630 and another has 1.635 I can adjust the shoulder bump to that of the chamber hs. I may be way off base here, I am still learning. Then there is the question of bullet seating depth. I have seen the rcbs precision mic tool which appears to have a couple of tools one of which tells you how deep the bullet goes into the chamber or throat and you take that reading and back it off a couple of thousandths. I was also told that you can get the same result using a bullet in a prepped case and closing it in the chamber. Any thoughts??? I see there are a few tools on the market, one I already mentioned the rcbs precision mic and onother one that redding makes that looks like it has multiple functions called the instant indicator. there is a good you tube vidoe on how to use it. Is this a tool that will cover all the aspects of what I need in order custom tailor my brass to a specific rifle? I have not been separating my brass by rifle and this tool looks as though it would do that for me after the fact. Then I have seen and I forgot who made it, a tool that you simply drop the case in and its either a go or no go based on how much is sticking out the end of the tool. If anyone knows what I am talking about please let me know who makes that one. Another silly question, do you resize your brass each and every time you fire it? I told you guys I would have a lot of questions. What I really need is to find a better book for match reloading. I really like the way the redding instant indicator works. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. By the way has anyone heard from RAMAC. I have not seen him posting for a while.
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The RCBS precision mice is always used on my bench. I check sized brass a few times during every batch. Yes , it is great for setting up headspaced brass for different guns as well as seating depth. And yes , you have to resize brass every time it is fired. Gosh, you would think you were a pilot or something. Most folks don't ask questions until they get in trouble. Too late when you are flying.
Semper Fi
Art
 

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Art I have been in some pickles in the cockpit. Smoke, my outer window pane on my side, smoke again, loss of power, unruly passangers. Doesn't phase me. Reloading, I'm clueless lol. Any thoughts on that redding Instant indicator?
Getting ready to spend a few hundred and don't want to regret what I buy so I come to the combined knowledge of the community. Glad I can pick everyones brains. If I become to overbearing you can speak the kings English to me and tell me to f off lol. Thanks Art for your reply.
 

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Get the Hornady Headspace gauges. They clamp on to a set of digital or dial calipers and will allow you to accurately measure your brass from the base of the case to the datum point on the shoulder where chamber headspace is measured. From there you can set your die to size cases to the desired headspace.

If you mix your brass up, it will also allow you to indentify which cases are which if they were tailored for a different rifle. I don't care much for the Wilson gauges. It's just a metal cylinder that tells you that your cases are either too long or too short. It doesn't tell you where in the range that you are. The RCBS gauge will tell you the same thing the Hornady will.

As far as seating depth, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You will more than likely be limited to weather or not the rounds fit in the magazine before you will be able to seat the bullet like you would for a bolt gun. That is unless you load the round one by one. Stick to 2.815" and shorter for 168's and above and 2.775" for 150's.

As far as match reloading, the best you can do is make your rounds uniform. Keep the cases sorted by weight, headspace, trim length and times fired.

Sort your bullets by weight and length from the ogive to the base. Bullets vary in taper length from the tip of the bullet to the point where it reaches .308"
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=34014/Product/Sinclair-Insert-Style-Bullet-Comparator#

Tony.
 

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Not familiar with the redding. Heck, I did it by sheer luck for over 40 years. Only started getting technical a few years ago when the kids finally moved away and I could find a few bucks for toys. The more I learn, the more I realize how lucky I have been not to have blown myself up.
 

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I hope this isn't too long but you asked a lot of questions. I also note that others have chimed in while I was typing this.

The headspace of a case means the distance from the head (bottom) of the case to a 'datum point' on the shoulder. This datum point is the point where the diameter of the shoulder is exactly 0.40" for a .308 case. The headspace of your chamber is the distance from the bolt face (w/ the bolt closed and locked) to the same point on the chamber's shoulder. Obviously, the case headspace must be shorter than the chamber headspace or the round won't chamber and the bolt won't close.

If you run your brass through a standard full-length die adjusted like the instructions tell you (screwed down into the press until the bottom of the die hits the shell-holder on the ram), it will usually set your case headspace to the SAAMI minimum, usually much shorter than a typical chamber's headspace. When the round is fired, the brass will stretch in length until the case shoulder hits the chamber's shoulder. Then when you resize the case, the shoulder gets shoved back to minimum again. This stretching and shoving will cause your brass to wear out sooner than need be, and this is what people are talking about when they talk about adjusting your case headspace to fit the gun. If you back your sizing die out a bit, you can lengthen the case headspace and thus reduce the distance the case shoulder will stretch before hitting the chamber's shoulder. This will make your brass last much longer and greatly reduces the chance of a case separation. It also helps with accuracy.

EDIT to above: Actually, what happens when you fire the gun is this: As the firing pin is striking and igniting the primer, it also drives the round forward until the case shoulder hits the chamber shoulder. Most of the stretching takes places back toward the rear of the case as the pressure drives the head back until it hits the bolt face. That's why case separations usually take place back by the head and not up by the shoulder.


In order to determine how far to back out your sizing die, you need to know what your chamber headspace is. And you need a measuring tool or two to help you gauge the headspace of your case. I'm familiar with the RBCS tool you mentioned but have never used one. I use a Hornady Lock-N-Load HeadspaceTool Set w/Bushings and the Redding Instant Indicator.

Finding the chamber headspace can be a problem because there's not a tool I'm aware of that you can stick in your gun to give you that reading. With some custom-fitted guns the maker can give you the headspace, but usually not. (Even if they give you a headspace measurement, I like to find my own. Sometimes different tools and methods yield different measurements.) What we do instead is measure the headspace of cases that have been fired in that gun. With the M14, you have to turn off your gas valve when doing this because the case can get stretched during cycling.

If I fire 10 new cases in a given gun and then measure the headspace of the brass when it comes out, I will typically get several different readings all within a small range. Too many factors to go into to explain this, but the longest case is the closest to the chamber headspace. It usually takes several firings (with neck sizing only in between) for a case to fully conform to the chamber size, and this is the best way to get an accurate reading. Taking a measurement after one firing is better than nothing.

The goal now is to set your sizing die so that it sets the shoulder on cases just under the size of the chamber headspace. Depending on whether you have a bolt gun or a semi-auto, the target length is in the neighborhood of .001 to .004 shorter than the chamber headspace (more for a semi in order to insure reliable cycling, less for a bolt gun).

The Hornady and RBCS tools will give you a numerical value for the measured headspace. The Redding tool gives a comparison but not a hard number. The Redding is much faster to use than the other two. You could get by with just one tool here.

I have five .308 guns and each one has a different headspace. The longest are two M1As and the shortest is a tight-chambered GAP custom bolt gun. Once the initial measuring is done, all I have to do now is set my sizing die differently for each gun. I know what my Redding Indicator reads for each gun so I just use that to compare cases coming out of the sizing die to make sure they have the target headspace for each. The ammo for the M1A won't even chamber in the GAP, so I have to keep my loaded ammo separate and well-marked. Using a different brand of brass in each gun makes it easier to sort through fired brass. I use Lapua, Win, IMI, LC, and Black Hills, with some Fed thrown in here and there. If I lose track of which brass is which, a quick run through the indicator will tell me. It's generally bad mojo in terms of accuracy and case life to swap brass from gun to gun, but I do have a stash of SHTF ammo that will work in any gun.

The Redding tool comes with a 'standard' case that lets you set the dial indicator to zero. I keep notes on how far away from zero each gun's brass should be. This way, if I use the tool for one of its other purposes, I know I can go right back to the same zero when I need to compare headspaces.

As far as OAL and seating depth goes, you are usually limited by the length that will fit into your magazine. Sometimes you can stretch your bullets out till they touch the lands for better accuracy, but that turns any gun into a single shot. I have a Hornady tool for finding what length of any given bullet will touch the lands, but I usually just use a case that has a slot cut in the neck with a Dremel tool. It will hold the bullet but allows it to slide back into this cut neck when I chamber it in a gun.

I learned my basic loading (pre-internet) with a Lyman reloading manual. The best book I've read is Handloading for Competition by Glen Zediker, but it is very difficult to read - partly because of the technical info and partly because of his rambling writing style. Another source is to go to the reloading section of the forum at Sniper's Hide, then look for the series of stickys there. But beware that these stickys are aimed at the super-anal bolt gun shooter looking to eliminate any source of inconsistency for long-range shooting.
 

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First let me say I am not a match shooter. I am just anal about reloading.
The most accurate way to set headspace can also be the most expensive. Forster makes a 11 piece .308 match headspace gauge set. From 1.630" to 1.640" in .001" increments. This set is about $200.00 but will give you the best reading for your rifles true headspace. So if you can beg or borrow a set, you can set your RCBS gauge work for your rifles. You can also make base cases(set at the rifles actual headspace) to compare to in the future.
If you get the Hornady Lock-N-load headspace gauge (which I use). It will need to be modified to give true headspace readings. The datum point is recessed in the bushing, which will give you a lower number when the caliper is zeroed. I did the mod that RAMMAC did by sanding square the bushing so it contacts the edge when zeroed. You can use the Hornady headspace gauge as is, just compare it to the Forester gauge or base bullet that fits the specific rifle and subtract .002"-.004" on the caliper.
separate your brass by case volume. I have a rubber cap to put in the primer pocket and fill with alcohol (or water) and weigh the amount of liquid. Yes its anal but it will give me the most consistent results. I do this when I work up loads.
I have not used the Redding gauge so I'm no help there.
As others have said; Yes you need to resize your brass each time.
I do have the Dillon case gauge. Even though I have all the other tools. I still drop each case in the gauge to check them.....(did I say I was anal about reloading)
Bullet seating I have not played with as much as I would like. So I will defer there to others.
To identify what cartridges are for each rifle, mark around the tips of the bullets with a different color markers.

Just more stuff to chew on.

Glenn
 

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Thanks, geepee. I didn't know that about the Hornady tool. But in a way it shows why I prefer to arrive at my own headspace measurement rather than one provided by the gunmaker - different tools and different methods. Kind of like using two different tape measures when building a project in the garage.

It also shows why the Redding tool can be accurate even though it doesn't give you a numerical measurement. As long as you are consistent - using the same tool to measure the same thing the same way, you'll be good to go.
 

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It looks like TexIndian and I use pretty much the same opinions and procedures for developing case sizing information and cartridge building. There are a couple of points that I would add.

As he mentioned, finding the head space for a chamber is a bit of a problem. I use a standard head space gauge set to find my chamber's head space and that puts me in the ball park, but to ensure absolute reliability and best accuracy, you need to experiment a little. Through trial and error you will find the head space dimension for the case that works best. Simply follow the process that TexIndian described and you can't go wrong. I use the Sinclair Bump gauge inserts for measuring the case head space. The Sinclair inserts are made of steel and they don't wear like the aluminum inserts.

As for the cartridges overall length (OAL or more accurately, COAL), I use that dimension as a beginning reference but I use the overall length between the cartridge's base and the ogive of the seated bullet (COGL) as the control dimension when I compare the performance of different cartridges. The tool I use for that measurement is another one from Sinclair, it is the Davidson Seating Depth Checker

Picture of the Davidson tool


Link to Sierra's web site that discusses the Davidson tool
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/seating.cfm

I like the Davidson tool because it has a metal base



that allows for greater accuracy when measuring the COGL. The base has ridges that ensure that the base of the case is in the same position every time you take a measurement.

P.S. I took forever to post this so I didn't see geepee3's post until now. I changed to the Sinclair metal bump gauge insert because I found that I was still rounding the inside edge of the Hornady insert over time.
 

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First let me say I am not a match shooter. I am just anal about reloading.
The most accurate way to set headspace can also be the most expensive. Forster makes a 11 piece .308 match headspace gauge set. From 1.630" to 1.640" in .001" increments. This set is about $200.00 but will give you the best reading for your rifles true headspace. So if you can beg or borrow a set, you can set your RCBS gauge work for your rifles. You can also make base cases(set at the rifles actual headspace) to compare to in the future.
If you get the Hornady Lock-N-load headspace gauge (which I use). It will need to be modified to give true headspace readings. The datum point is recessed in the bushing, which will give you a lower number when the caliper is zeroed. I did the mod that RAMMAC did by sanding square the bushing so it contacts the edge when zeroed. You can use the Hornady headspace gauge as is, just compare it to the Forester gauge or base bullet that fits the specific rifle and subtract .002"-.004" on the caliper.
separate your brass by case volume. I have a rubber cap to put in the primer pocket and fill with alcohol (or water) and weigh the amount of liquid. Yes its anal but it will give me the most consistent results. I do this when I work up loads.
I have not used the Redding gauge so I'm no help there.
As others have said; Yes you need to resize your brass each time.
I do have the Dillon case gauge. Even though I have all the other tools. I still drop each case in the gauge to check them.....(did I say I was anal about reloading)
Bullet seating I have not played with as much as I would like. So I will defer there to others.
To identify what cartridges are for each rifle, mark around the tips of the bullets with a different color markers.

Just more stuff to chew on.

Glenn

Yes I also use the Forester HS gauges in conjunction with a RCBS Prec. Mic when setting up my resizing die. But after seeing the cost for buying a full set of HS gages, I took a little direction to get a particular rifles HS. I purchased the normal Go/No Go/ and Field gages from Brownells. I also purchased a shim stock set # 080-554-024, Kit# 24 from them also. Using the .001/.002/and .003 shim stock I can get those in between numbers of the gages I have by cutting a circular disc that will fit the back of the gages. By putting a drop of CLP on the head of the gage the shim stock will stay affixed to the gage throughout the measuring operation. I used this method often and fell very confident of the readings. It could save a lot of $$$, especially if you reload various calibers. dozier

PS: Texindian is spot on as to how to reload for a particular rifle.
 

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Yes I also use the Forester HS gauges in conjunction with a RCBS Prec. Mic when setting up my resizing die. But after seeing the cost for buying a full set of HS gages, I took a little direction to get a particular rifles HS. I purchased the normal Go/No Go/ and Field gages from Brownells. I also purchased a shim stock set # 080-554-024, Kit# 24 from them also. Using the .001/.002/and .003 shim stock I can get those in between numbers of the gages I have by cutting a circular disc that will fit the back of the gages. By putting a drop of CLP on the head of the gage the shim stock will stay affixed to the gage throughout the measuring operation. I used this method often and fell very confident of the readings. It could save a lot of $$$, especially if you reload various calibers. dozier

PS: Texindian is spot on as to how to reload for a particular rifle.
A+ Dozier on the shim method.
I had forgot you had posted that before.
Thanks for the reminder.

Glenn
 

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I use a hornady comparitor or RCBS case mic. As long as the sized brass comes out of the die about 0.002-0.004" shorter, then you're in the right place.

Don't like messing with chamber HS gages; getting the bolt put back together is something I don't enjoy (getting the everything back in place while the rifle is still in the bedding is a pain). It also adds several addition sources of error into the equation (how well are they calibrated; is the chamber clean; bolt face clean (bolt face square); are you using the same minute pressure as last time....). A comparitor tells you the exact information you need with the least amount of fuss.


I've gotten away from load tinkering as I think it's bad from a competitive perspective. I know quite a few guys that shoot a mean group, but because it's a new load every week, they never land it in the center. There's something to be said for finding an adequate load, then focusing on shooting; get it in the center and learn how to keep it there through the various positions, light conditions, distances, and wind changes.

I do load development with my normal bucket o' brass, but when I think I'm there, I do a confirmation run with the worst brass I can find. Knowing what I get under ideal conditions isn't really valuable information for me. I'd rather know that under worst case conditions, I still have a load that shoots well. I dial in a lot of charge weight variation (0.6grs) as well during the confirmation run.

This saves me from having to fuss and weigh things when I'm cranking out ammo for matches. Nobody who's competitive in highpower is losing points because of ammo. Good zeros and solid technique is what pays dividends. My time is better spent dryfiring offhand than it is working at the bench. So, something to consider if you're interested in cranking out a large volume of quality ammo.
 

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One thing no one has mentioned is WHY getting headspace right for your rifle matters. TexIndian correctly pointed out that resizing as little as possible each time extends case life, but there's also an accuracy issue. When the firing pin hits the primer and forces the case forward, the case shoulder centers the case in the chamber. If the case moves backward and hits the breech face as the powder ignites, then you may lose a bit of that "natural" centering. Therefore, the less fore and aft slop your case has in the chamber, the better centered the case should be when the bullet starts moving forward into the barrel. At least that's the way I think it happens. (please let me know if that's incorrect!)

FWIW the Wilson case gauges are useful in most instances, especially as a quick check for trim length. They also might be good for checking loaded ammo at a gun show. Like the "Greatest Trimmer Ever" RAMMAC discussed in another recent thread, the Wilson gauge measures trim length off of the shoulder - not the case head. Also, for bolt guns and any caliber other than 7.62 Nato, the Wilson gauges are "good enough" for most handloaders.

However, I've started using both the Hornady headspace gauge for sizing and their "bullet comparator" for COAL. I used TexIndian's approach of measuring cases fired with the gas system turned off for my Scout and that it seems to work great. BTW the measurement is dead on what the Springfield tag said.

Unfortunately, I have a unitized gas cylinder on my M25 so that option is out. Instead, I just resized a case long, removed the op rod & spring, fit the case under the extractor and tried to close the bolt by hand. Kept resizing a little shorter until I could just close the bolt. When that case measured almost exactly what LRB told me the chamber headspace was (like within .0005"), I stopped worrying and size my cases .003-.005" shorter than that measurement with the Hornady gauge.

My 2 rifles' headspace .001" or less apart, so I don't resize differently for them. In either case, properly sized cases show proud of the Wilson .308 Winchester case gauge. (couldn't resist the pun)

I know I keep bringing this up, but Hornady does a lousy job of marketing their "anvil" which fits on your calipers and serves as a base for the case head:



It doesn't have those nifty steps like the Davidson piece RAMMAC posted above which actually centers the case, but it does give you much more consistent reading with both the Bullet Comparator and the Headspace Gauge. I've found that if you gently rotate the case while lightly compressing your calipers, you'll find the exact reading.
 

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So as you are well aware I have been setting up a reloading bench and I am getting ready to make another move on some more equipment. I have heard it mentioned several times in the past couple of weeks not to overlook the 'case headspace". I am not sure I understand exactly what the definition of case headspace is. I am assuming a variety of tools are used to ensure that the case headspace does not go below sammi minimum. If I am wrong please correct me. I am also assuming that the tool or combination of tools allows you to custom tailor the your brass to your chamber hs. For example, if one of my rifles has a chamber HS of 1.630 and another has 1.635 I can adjust the shoulder bump to that of the chamber hs. I may be way off base here, I am still learning. Then there is the question of bullet seating depth. I have seen the rcbs precision mic tool which appears to have a couple of tools one of which tells you how deep the bullet goes into the chamber or throat and you take that reading and back it off a couple of thousandths. I was also told that you can get the same result using a bullet in a prepped case and closing it in the chamber. Any thoughts??? I see there are a few tools on the market, one I already mentioned the rcbs precision mic and onother one that redding makes that looks like it has multiple functions called the instant indicator. there is a good you tube vidoe on how to use it. Is this a tool that will cover all the aspects of what I need in order custom tailor my brass to a specific rifle? I have not been separating my brass by rifle and this tool looks as though it would do that for me after the fact. Then I have seen and I forgot who made it, a tool that you simply drop the case in and its either a go or no go based on how much is sticking out the end of the tool. If anyone knows what I am talking about please let me know who makes that one. Another silly question, do you resize your brass each and every time you fire it? I told you guys I would have a lot of questions. What I really need is to find a better book for match reloading. I really like the way the redding instant indicator works. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. By the way has anyone heard from RAMAC. I have not seen him posting for a while.
Forster makes a fine set of headspace gauges from go to nogo to maximum which is really 7.62 X 51 specification. Just go to Forsterproducts.com I think it is. I've got 4 gauges along that line as well as my throat erosion gauge.

1) deprime brass with Wilson decapping tool (go to Brownells.com and click on the Sinclair tab). It allows you to sit in front of the tube and decap brass while watching TV.

2) Get a good tumbler, not a sonic tumbler, the old fashioned kind that tumbles. Reason is that Lyman has made some fine media that's actually tiny metal BB's and they'll help clean the primer pocket

3) Get: Sinclair Primer Pocket uniformer and make your primer pockets uniform for consistency. Helps to get one for the flash hole too.

4) Lube the brass and I have several cheap/cheats for this one if you want so you don't have to buy costly products. Go easy on the lube

5) Get Redding dies, take off the depriming tool and the expander ball, you don't want to use them It is an issue with concentricity. Yes resize every time, unless you get very savvy about reloading in a couple of years and then learn to bump the shoulder *IF* you can.

6) If you want to extend the reloading life of the brass, anneal them.

Etc etc etc. Best press you can use for seriously accurate ammo? Forster Co ax, it compensates if you haven't indexed the cases perfectly ever time. I love mine. I also use the Forster case trimmers (length, inside and outside case neck). Because "concentricity" has become such a big issue over the years, I also have one of their Cartridge and Case inspector's, it's sitting on the table about 2 feet away at the moment.

If you want more, let me know. Yes, this is the way I load for 1000 yard shooting. A lot of us do it this way.
 

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Gents I thanks you for all your replies. This information is invaluable, I will and have been reading each and every reply over and over again for a couple of days now digesting the information. I am sure I will do so again a couple of times.
Just so happens that I have a set of PTG HS gauges from 1.627-1.640 14 gauges in all. So I think I have the HS gauges covered. I chambered and built all my rifles so I know exactly what the HS on each one is. Most are 1.630 and two of them are set up to 1.632.
This thread opened my eyes to more than I knew was available to measure the case HS, a lot more. Now I have my homework to do and study each instrument just like I have in past requests for information and make a purchase. This particular thread will be printed for future reference. Once again fella's you guys came through and went above and beyond, I can't thank you enough.
I like a good challenge, when I joined the forum I knew nothing about building these fine rifles now I have built several. I am a "babe in the woods" right now regarding hand loading but again with all your help, in a few months, I hope to know enough to stay safe and enjoy a new passion. One that I plan on doing for a long time. This is the kind of information you can't read in a book. Like I said I will be "going to school" on all this information and figuring out what tools I think will work for me and or tickle my fancy. I am like most, a gadget person. I write these threads not only to learn how to but to see and understand why what everyone else is doing. I don't want to get caught up buying tool after tool, I simply want to buy one time and stick with that set up. Now I am going to go and read the thread from the top again. I can't thank you guys enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Warren- if I can help you with the process, let me know. I'm local and load for the M1A.
That would be GREAT!!! I just need to figure out which tools I will be buying. I just got done de priming another freezer bag of 308. I am done with 308 and only have one freezer bag of 223 to go and I will start ordering more tools.
 

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Nice tools can be an addiction. They can also be the source of great frustration. A tool that measures to .001 makes you think you've done some good work, and then you get one that measures to .00001 and you realize your work isn't consistent at all (at least it seems that way). More than once I've been tempted to put tape over the last couple digits on some electronic tools just so I won't get distracted by the different readings. I don't see how machinists do it.

Another source of frustration is that brass doesn't always do what you expect it to do. One example is the rule of thumb that brass will rebound about .001 when it comes out of a die, etc. New brass may rebound more and older brass may do less. And two cases that came out of the bag together may react different to a given tool. It can get baffling at times if you sweat the tiny details too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I hear ya. When I was looking for a digital angle finder to use in conjunction with the badger alignment gauge, I saw starrett gauges. They were accurate to within 1/100th of a degree and cost a couple of hundred dollars. I wound up getting one from sears on sale for 30 dollars. I figure if the barrel is indexed and the angle finder reads 0/0 I am accurate to within 1/10 of a degree which is the tolerance of the gauge. Good enough for govt work right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So i have read and re read this thread several times now. I am 100% certain I will be getting the Redding instant indicator with the components needed to check .223 .308 and 30-06 I am also going to get the davidson tool and sinclair bump gauge. I am a tool freak like the rest of you so if the redding tool does the job of the davidson and bump gauges so be it I can check one against the other an the two are not very expensive. I have also decided that I will get the redding competition shell holder set. Teindian, I know you mention the washers you spoke of on the phone the other day. i forgot who made them, can you let me know again, i would like to look into them closer. I am a little puzzled though as to exactly where they get placed on the resizing die. I thought the bodies were all one piece. Does it go under the locking ring on top of the press? If it does you still need to remove the lock ring and it seems to defeat the purpose. If I have to remove the lock ring I might as well readjust the die for each different case HS length. A little puzzled on that one. I do like the idea of the washers due to the smaller increments of adjustment. I have put together an order form for redding. I took the liberty of sending my fathers FFL in so he is now a redding dealer. I got a purchase order from him and I am going to go to town at the end of the month. So far with his discount not including the 8.25% tax i have to pay the state, I am just shy of 1200 dollars. I figure with all that and a few pieces I will add from sinclairs and the case trimmer and powder measure the bench will be 100% complete by the end of march and I will have also paid my dam taxes to uncle sam. Have to spread it out over the next couple of months so I have the coin for uncle first. At the end of the day i figure with what I have already purchased to include powder bullets primers, the hollywood turret press, the dillon case separator and cleaner I will be in the neighborhood of 3500 dollars. I figure with the amount of brass I have in 223 308 and 30-06 the equipment will have paid for itself by the time the 308 brass has been loaded four times. Not to mention a new passion to go with competition shooting. I think I might have to hang up the fishing rods and golf clubs soon. Ah I dont think so LOL. Again thanks for all your help.
 
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