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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
hey guys, in a dilemma , i seen where i can buy a replica 8x unertl (hi-lux-never heard of them till now)similiar to what troops used in ww2-vietnam ,including G sgt hathcock( pure bad a$$ ),and now ive got the itch to mount it on my 1947 model 70 in yep 30-06. anyhow ive heard that hathcocks model 70 was a sporter size barrell and a medium-heavy barrell, so im confused to which it really was . does anyone here know for sure ? right now the rifle wears a vintage redfield 3-9x with tombstone ......and is a tack driver with a mild handload and sierra 180 gr sbts going 2430 fps . i think it would be pretty darn cool to build up a replica of hathcocks and other snipers m70 with unertl 8x . ramp up that load a bit with 175 gr sierras and smoke that steel at a grand. maybe get it re-blued too,as its faded to a nice gunmetal (haha pun intended) grey

tips,thoughts,wisdom , and a final answer on hathcocks 70 variant ? (not that its too important ,i think the scope will be awesome enough on any 70 ,but now i wanna know for sure ).thanx for reading guys.
 

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The pre 64 mod.70 he used had a 24" med. contour barrel after the factory one was no longer serviceable. The Unertl 8x replica is a fine scope IMO. Good luck with your project! Texas Brigade Armory made a few replicas of Gunny's rig.
 

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Thought carlos used the 10x unertyl?
Or maybe that what he had mounted on the M2 that he used for his long
shot on the unlucky youngster pedelling around with the SKS's. someone
set me straight but im sure thats what the story was.
Met "the Man" at Pefry back in early 90s and he signed his book cor me.
Didnt vet to bs much as i woukd have liked, as the Marines were raising money
for him as Carlos wasnt in vefy good shape at that time.
Good times, good stories, and good buddies...
 

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When researching for mine,I was told medium heavy barrel,24 inches long with a flat target crown and .790 muzzle diameter. That's what's on mine...The new hi lux scope looks ok,but I've heard from some that say it's nothing compared to a Unertl in use. I have a 10 power (early sn) 1 inch Unertl on my pre war M70. Just a note,most folks don't know the correct way to measure the scopes. The bell on the end of my scope measures 1 1/4 inch diameter,,but the correct way to measure is the actual diameter of the glass.Glass on mine is 1 inch.The original Unertl used on the Carlos rifle is an 8 power 1 1/4 and is approximately 25 inches long.It will be marked USMC Sniper on the tube above the sn...Same scopes as used on the WW2 M1903A1 USMC sniper rifles. My 10X is approximately 22 inches long which is why it looks short on my rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thought carlos used the 10x unertyl?
Or maybe that what he had mounted on the M2 that he used for his long
shot on the unlucky youngster pedelling around with the SKS's. someone
set me straight but im sure thats what the story was.
Met "the Man" at Pefry back in early 90s and he signed his book cor me.
Didnt vet to bs much as i woukd have liked, as the Marines were raising money
for him as Carlos wasnt in vefy good shape at that time.
Good times, good stories, and good buddies...
no im pretty sure he had the 8x ,only recently i cam accross a site saying the 10x so now im confused bout that too,but it seems more likely the 8x IMO. i also didnt knoiw there was a 10x though either so i dunno

Wow you met the fella ? thats awesome. alls i have is an interview by Plaster with him,wow hes got crazy dangerous eyes i thought . gonna watch it now again soon. crazy brave individual .

Nice rig m1 shooter , my rifle is at the farm right now so i cant be for sure ,but i thougt mine is more of a straighter butt stock....could be wrong. think its a 24" though. dont shoot it really ,bought it for the collector thing oh 4 years ago,worked out a handload for it in 2 trips and executed a cow for the father in law(rancher) with it and thats it. if i did do this i would definatley shoot it more. thinking ill put it on and then if i shoot the barrell out go with your specs then. either way i think it would be nice (but being a target shooter myself the medium heavy barrell does appeal to me more ). what no sling swivels on your rifle ? wheres the sling ? or is it strictly a bench gun i guess? thanx for sharing
 

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no im pretty sure he had the 8x ,only recently i cam accross a site saying the 10x so now im confused bout that too,but it seems more likely the 8x IMO. i also didnt knoiw there was a 10x though either so i dunno

Wow you met the fella ? thats awesome. alls i have is an interview by Plaster with him,wow hes got crazy dangerous eyes i thought . gonna watch it now again soon. crazy brave individual .

Nice rig m1 shooter , my rifle is at the farm right now so i cant be for sure ,but i thougt mine is more of a straighter butt stock....could be wrong. think its a 24" though. dont shoot it really ,bought it for the collector thing oh 4 years ago,worked out a handload for it in 2 trips and executed a cow for the father in law(rancher) with it and thats it. if i did do this i would definatley shoot it more. thinking ill put it on and then if i shoot the barrell out go with your specs then. either way i think it would be nice (but being a target shooter myself the medium heavy barrell does appeal to me more ). what no sling swivels on your rifle ? wheres the sling ? or is it strictly a bench gun i guess? thanx for sharing
I too met Carlos at a book signing many years ago in Va. He signed my book and I also bought the VCR tape. Yeah,he definitely had the stare.
His scope, used on the model 70 and for that M2 .50 long shot was the USMC sniper marked 8 power Unertl scope.
I took the sling swivels off when I oiled the stock,,I need to cut down the upper swivel screw as it sticks into the barrel channel too much and touches the barrel. Just been too busy with all my other projects.
This rifle shoots real well with AP 30.06,,but it's a tack driver with Lake City match ammo.
PS,,,Unertl made many many different power scopes for civilian use.
I think you would need to check with Hi Lux to see what they recommend for bases based on what barrel you use.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The pre 64 mod.70 he used had a 24" med. contour barrel after the factory one was no longer serviceable. The Unertl 8x replica is a fine scope IMO. Good luck with your project! Texas Brigade Armory made a few replicas of Gunny's rig.
oh ok, so thats why some sources say sporter barrell,but most say varmint/medium barrell.

i have read ...forgot which book , the accounts of his armourer ,who after lookiing the rifle over couldnt believe it still shot .....but being shot out it still did the first shot accurately.....which is all C.H. needed.......

thanx
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I too met Carlos at a book signing many years ago in Va. He signed my book and I also bought the VCR tape. Yeah,he definitely had the stare.
His scope, used on the model 70 and for that M2 .50 long shot was the USMC sniper marked 8 power Unertl scope.
I took the sling swivels off when I oiled the stock,,I need to cut down the upper swivel screw as it sticks into the barrel channel too much and touches the barrel. Just been too busy with all my other projects.
This rifle shoots real well with AP 30.06,,but it's a tack driver with Lake City match ammo.
PS,,,Unertl made many many different power scopes for civilian use.
I think you would need to check with Hi Lux to see what they recommend for bases based on what barrel you use.
you met him too................you son of a ........haha. just kidding .

had the stare ,yeah maybe thats a better description for it .....

copy that on the talk to hi lux thing,last time i checked theres no problem getting bases/rings sent to me from the states. you should send me that autographed book M1 ......it would be an awesome stocking stuffer for me come christmas.....lmao.
 

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I have spoken to a man who knows Major Land. The Major said that Carlos' rifle shot 2 MOA at 100 yards. Carlos was a master at Kentucky windage.
 

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you met him too................you son of a ........haha. just kidding .

had the stare ,yeah maybe thats a better description for it .....

copy that on the talk to hi lux thing,last time i checked theres no problem getting bases/rings sent to me from the states. you should send me that autographed book M1 ......it would be an awesome stocking stuffer for me come christmas.....lmao.

Get on line. I have several guys who want it. Problem is,I don't remember where I put it. It's around here somewhere.....GI3 Also have some pics of he and I at the signing that are in an envelope and tucked in the book.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
oh man.........well as long as your sure its around there somewhere then it aint so bad. you probably put it in a safe secure hidden spot and poof forgot what ya did with it .

i was 15 and i went to re read an old favourite book and found $60 bucks i think that i stashed there and had forgotten about , big deal to me at the time.was nice. youll be so happy when you find it.

hey when you find it pm me the pics and book and everything if ya dont mind or put up on this thread or on this site.....if its ok with you.ill settle with that

think im gonna re read marine sniper now ........yep just pulled it out of my sniper section......theres a picture of a mod 70 next to a mosin ,yeah its definatley a medium-heavy barrell
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
yeah thanx there philip, marine mentioned them too, but for some reason i assumed/not thinking it was an texas military unit(LOL),or militia or something ka-razy so i didnt bother with his advice. last nite came across it surfing. gonna call them eventually see if i can get any parts for my project,thru them - butt pad(metal-ouch), bases,slings and minor details ,etc. its pretty limited what i can order to canada regarding reloading/gun parts ,pretty ridiculous actually .and talk to them about some specs regarding the scope mounting etc. im still trying to find a harris m1a bipod adapter to go on that rifles weep hole. up here marine corp/usa military/sniper stuff is not well known so my gunsmiths have not seen a model 70 built to that old spec , also nevermind an m40-m40a1.although a fella did win a small tactical match last fall using a m40a3 clone in 30-06. i placed 12th hungover.....lol.
 

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According to Donavan who was Gunny Hatchcock's armorer in Nam the Gunny used a Pre War m70 with a standard issue barrel on it during his first tour in Vietnam .I also asked gunny Hathcock personally about this years later and he said while many Marines were using the rebarreled heavy barrel Model 70 Rifles he liked the lighter weight of the standard and it shot very well for the first couple shots .On later tours Hathcock used an M40 Remington .Gunny told me he never used a heavy barreled M70 in Nam but he shot a few helping others zero while there
 
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Discussion Starter #16
According to Donavan who was Gunny Hatchcock's armorer in Nam the Gunny used a Pre War m70 with a standard issue barrel on it during his first tour in Vietnam .I also asked gunny Hathcock personally about this years later and he said while many Marines were using the rebarreled heavy barrel Model 70 Rifles he liked the lighter weight of the standard and it shot very well for the first couple shots .On later tours Hathcock used an M40 Remington .Gunny told me he never used a heavy barreled M70 in Nam but he shot a few helping others zero while there
Oh Snap, there right out of the horses mouth . so he did use a standard barell. cool, well ill leave mine alone till its time to upgrade. cant afford to re barell it anyhow. and its heavy enough.thanx man.

Wow is there anyone here that hasnt met the legendary man. im so jealous. ok well for my counter attack ,last summer i had a 3 day training (basic marksamnship) course with Rob Furlong-my countries longest kill sniper who finally broke hathcocks long standing record. ha take that. no ,joking aside his modern day equipment -tac 50 rifle with a 16 x leupold vs a m2 and 8x unertl cant compare with White feather s IMO , not to mention all the other (and more significant)crazy things hathcock did over "there".from a ballistic point of view and maybe the conditions(mountain/wind) and the extra 200 yards ,Robs shot is crazy- from a Ballistic thing .

looking up that texas armoury site i did find info about CH usiong an m40 just as you said ,i had no idea he upgraded to that later on,so thanx again. guess it got blown up with the apc.

istarted printing your pictures,seen the title on page 2 and went bam ,i have that book .yeah read it long ago, so io think thats why i thought he had a reg barell.or at least the part of the book about his armourere. and it being shot out. that book is next to me now,another one to re read.

this is so interesting guys. really appreciate this. if you come to alberta beers are on me.
 

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Oh Snap, there right out of the horses mouth . so he did use a standard barell. cool, well ill leave mine alone till its time to upgrade. cant afford to re barell it anyhow. and its heavy enough.thanx man.

Wow is there anyone here that hasnt met the legendary man. im so jealous. ok well for my counter attack ,last summer i had a 3 day training (basic marksamnship) course with Rob Furlong-my countries longest kill sniper who finally broke hathcocks long standing record. ha take that. no ,joking aside his modern day equipment -tac 50 rifle with a 16 x leupold vs a m2 and 8x unertl cant compare with White feather s IMO , not to mention all the other (and more significant)crazy things hathcock did over "there".from a ballistic point of view and maybe the conditions(mountain/wind) and the extra 200 yards ,Robs shot is crazy- from a Ballistic thing .

looking up that texas armoury site i did find info about CH usiong an m40 just as you said ,i had no idea he upgraded to that later on,so thanx again. guess it got blown up with the apc.

istarted printing your pictures,seen the title on page 2 and went bam ,i have that book .yeah read it long ago, so io think thats why i thought he had a reg barell.or at least the part of the book about his armourere. and it being shot out. that book is next to me now,another one to re read.

this is so interesting guys. really appreciate this. if you come to alberta beers are on me.
Gunny would visit Stone Bay Sniper school time to time ( where I met him for the first time ) He also made the gunshow circuit signing his book when it came out and would love to talk rifles and long range shooting
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I have spoken to a man who knows Major Land. The Major said that Carlos' rifle shot 2 MOA at 100 yards. Carlos was a master at Kentucky windage.
man thats worse than my m1a, imagine how many more enemy would have fallen to him if he had a 1 moa rifle or less? 186 ? the fact his rifle as 2 moa just makes him even more deadlier with a rifle. a 2moa rifle would make me pull my teeth out .
 

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man thats worse than my m1a, imagine how many more enemy would have fallen to him if he had a 1 moa rifle or less? 186 ? the fact his rifle as 2 moa just makes him even more deadlier with a rifle. a 2moa rifle would make me pull my teeth out .
That's why he was who he was and you are what you are.......No offense, but everybody is different.

John
 

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Theoreticly a 2 MOA rifle at 600 would put the furthest shot from your point of aim at 6" Your average shot at 600 would be only 3" in any direction from your point of aim . A 2 MOA rifle can and has made consistent kills up to and past 1000 yards . What is more important in judging range and reading the wind. Too many people get hung up on moa instead of practicing rifle skills . A skilled rifleman with a 2 moa rifle is far more deadly than a guy who has a 1/2 moa rifle and only shoots from the bench .
 
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