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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, I wonder what the best CA-legal muzzle brake would be for my new rifle:

The standard CA-legal muzzle break, the SE US Coast Guard, the SE California Compensator, or the LRB Muzzle Break?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!
 

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Having put a thousand+ rounds through a SEI USCG brake I question whether I'll buy another or anything similar. It's a beautiful piece of machining art and does the intended job admirably. It's also stubbornly difficult to get clean because of all the ports.

One of Ted Brown's CA-legal match-reamed dummy suppressors is currently on my shopping list. Might be worth a look for you, too.
 

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Check out the JP/Delta P design tacticle compensator in the group buy section. I put one on and WOW great stuff. Recoil way down, accuracy improvement (not quite sure why or how this happened), and it gives the rifle an owesome look. Very satisfied to this point and I'm not the only one. It is Cali legal and it come with the paperwork to prove it. I have shot it at several ranges without question. Maybe 82nd will chime in and tell you more about it.
 

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It is Cali legal and it come with the paperwork to prove it.
I don't believe there is any "paperwork" anywhere that shows the legality of guns in CA. Because no CA authority provides such paperwork. They write laws/regulations but do not sign-off on weapons or parts. To do some lengthy quoting from CA attorney general's website:

Senate Bill 23 Assault Weapon Characteristics
12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
1.A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
.......[snip]
E.A flash suppressor.


So what is a flash suppressor? A funny saying I heard was simply: "holes vs. slots." Here's a lengthy description of it in regards to the senate bill.


978.20 (b) - Flash Suppressor
This term was originally defined as “any device that reduces or conceals the visible light or flash
created when a firearm is fired. This definition includes flash hiders, but does not include
compensators and muzzle brakes (devices attached to or integral with the muzzle barrel to utilize
propelling gasses for counter-recoil).” There were two primary problems with the definition when
it was originally noticed to the public (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000). The most
significant problem with the original definition was that it included and/or excluded particular
devices by name (flash hider, muzzle brake, compensator) without consideration of whether the
devices actually suppress flash. After further consideration prompted by public comments, the
Department concluded that the absence of statutorily defined specific measurement standards or a
statutory requirement to establish those standards demonstrates a legislative intent to identify any
device that reduces or redirects flash from the shooter’s field of vision as a flash suppressor
regardless of its name and intended/additional purpose. Thus, “flash hiders” are flash suppressors
only if they reduce or redirect flash from the shooter’s field of vision. Conversely, “compensators”
and “muzzle brakes” are not flash suppressors only if they do not reduce or redirect flash from the
shooter’s field of vision. The revised definition is clearly consistent with the legislative intent of
the statute as it neither includes nor excludes any particular device on the basis of its name only.
Additionally, “conceals” in the original definition presented the possibility of an overly broad
interpretation which could have included any device positioned between the shooter’s eye and the
muzzle flash, such as the sights on a gun. To avoid such unintended interpretation, the word
“conceals” was replaced with “redirects.” Accordingly, the original definition was changed to:
“flash suppressor means any device that reduces or redirects muzzle flash from the shooter’s field
of vision.”
This revised definition was noticed to the public during the first 15-day comment period (May 10
through May 30, 2000). Comments addressing this version of the definition prompted further
reconsideration and revision. As such, the definition was revised a second time by replacing “ . . .
that reduces or redirects muzzle flash . . . ” with “ . . . designed, intended, or that functions to
reduce or redirect muzzle flash . . . ” This change was necessary because it became clear that flash
suppressors are typically attached by twisting or screwing the device onto the threaded barrel of a
firearm. Therefore, by simply making a half turn (180 degrees), an otherwise fully operational
flash suppressor would not function as prescribed in the prior definition. The revised definition
eliminates this potential loophole. Accordingly, this final revision “flash suppressor means any
device designed, intended, or that functions to reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s
field of vision,” was noticed during the second 15-day comment period (July 12 through July 31,
2000). Although additional comments were received, no comments were received during the
second 15-day comment period that resulted in substantial revision to the definition. However, the
Department made a non-substantial revision by adding “perceptibly” to the phrase “reduce or
redirect” to confirm that if a reduction or redirection of flash is so minuscule that it is
imperceptible to the human eye, it could not reasonably be considered a reduction.
 

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I went with one of Teds' Ca flash suppesors. I will let everyone know my thoughts on it once received. I wanted something as close to traditional as possible and still be able to use my standard cap mags.
 

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I have both the Jp and SEI...They both work great but I would say the Jp is better.
 

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What length barrel is this going on? Do you plan to run full length sights or a GLFS? These things do make a difference...
 

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You actually clean yours??? GI3 I just shoot mine more, to blow all the excess carbon out.... Works good so far.... GI6


Having put a thousand+ rounds through a SEI USCG brake I question whether I'll buy another or anything similar. It's a beautiful piece of machining art and does the intended job admirably. It's also stubbornly difficult to get clean because of all the ports.


Nice choice. Can't wait for the report on it.
 

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Originally posted by DukeRustfield
I don't believe there is any "paperwork" anywhere that shows the legality of guns in CA. Because no CA authority provides such paperwork. They write laws/regulations but do not sign-off on weapons or parts. To do some lengthy quoting from CA attorney general's website:
You see that's the beauty of CA. They write laws that are too long, ramble on about nothing, and no one really understands what they really mean. That makes the laws very hard, if not impossible to monitor and/or enforce. That being the case, very very few even make the attempt to enforce laws that they do not understand.

I loved your post and I read it all twice. It made me dizzy and I fell down. Whatever a muzzle break, compensator, flash hider, flame suppressor, 'black pointy sharp thing in front' etc is, it's pretty obvious that CA doesn't have the slightest clue of the difference. Fortunately JP has cleared the issue up by providing paperwork that clearly states in a very few understandable words that their compensator is OKIE DOKIE for CA and all enforcement agencies can relax and go about their business elsewhere.

It has been my personal experience that presenting this paperwork works very well and all agencies are glad to accept it as proof the compensator is in CA compliance. It's either that or attempt to figure out the complicated and impossible explaination given by the state of CA which they do not want to do (because it makes them fall down).

Thank you for posting the CA official version, just don't read it too fast or you will probably fall down.
 

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CA is funny. A flash hider is OK on a rifle as long as you don't have it attached to a semi-auto center fire rifle with a detachable box magazine. So, if you have a CA legal AR with a "fixed" or removable, by the use of a tool, 10 round mag, a flash hider is legal. I used to sell them. Hence why the SAI M1A rifles have a special break and not the normal flash hider installed on the CA version of the rifles.

So, a semi-auto, centerfire rifle, with a removable mag with an attached flash suppressor/hider is a big no-no. It is a combination of the Assault weapons ban and the flash hider combo that is the real concern.

I had an AR with a "fixed" 10 rnd mag and had a Vortex flash hider on it. Never had a problem with it in CA.

Oh, and CONGRATS to CA!!! They beat down the mail order and handgun ammo bill just days before it is going to take effect!! WOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!

(Glad I made it out of that state when I did.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Does anybody know what CA-legal muzzle brakes are allowed to shoot at Perry for what competitions?

The 2008 regulations for the M1A matches say:
"Can I use a California legal muzzle brake?
Yes, you can use a muzzle brake that is legal for use in California. It should be the one that was installed on the M1A by Springfield Armory. No after market flash suppressors or muzzle brakes are allowed."

But the rules for the Highpower matches do not specify muzzle brakes...
 

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I just spent a fair amount of time over at the CMP forums trying to find an answer to that same question. No luck. Keep in mind that the M1A match is not conducted under the CMP EIC service rifle rules, the M1A match has its own rules.

The CMP rules do specify muzzle devices, a vented muzzle extension with the same dimensions as the M14 flash suppressor is permitted as long as it does not reduce recoil. They may be referring to the SAI California muzzle brake/stabilizer, it is within .040" or so of being the same dimensions as an M14 flash suppressor, but I don't know how they get around the no recoil reduction clause.

It might take a question direct to the CMP rules people to get a clear answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I contacted muzzle brake manufacturers, the NRA and the CMP. To make a long story short, the manufacturers don't know match rules.

The NRA hasn't replied to my emails but seems to be fine with the Springfield Armory muzzle brake, but not with others:
"Yes, you can use a muzzle brake that is legal for use in California. It should be the one that was installed on the M1A by Springfield
Armory. No after market flash suppressors or muzzle brakes are allowed". Source: NRA Springfield M1A Match at Camp Perry FAQ

3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes - The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited. An
extension tube that has been installed on the muzzle of a rifle to extend the sight radius shall not be
considered a “muzzle brake”. The extension tube must have an interior diameter of .5 inches or greater
and may have 1/4” x 1” slots cut at 12 and 6 o’clock to remove cleaning patches. Threaded holes along
the top of this tube for the installation of sight bases will be allowed. Source: NRA HIGH POWER RIFLE RULES
REVISED JANUARY, 2009 NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION Official Rules for High Power Rifle Matches

The CMP rulebook says no muzzle brakes:
6.2.2 U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M14
(7) A muzzle brake designed to reduce recoil is not permitted.

Even though I made clear my predicament about the CA-legal prohibition of flash suppressors, the CMP representative replied: "We do not allow ... any kind of muzzle brakes."
 

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Get on Gunbroker and you'll see all types of great deals for M1A's, but 1 or 2 if you're lucky with a CA legal compensator, such bs. The outside of the SAI box and the rifle will have a sticker and a plastic tag warning about how it is illegal in mexifornia. Again, more bs. Piss on that, citizen of this country should be allowed to get whatever they want, regardless of state. Wasn't the Civil War fought to unite this nation? Instead these damn states and their damn governors and attorney generals are nothing more than tyrants and dictators. We should not feel obligated to follow illegal and or immoral laws that go against the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our own moral compasses. Damn these commie politicians.....Life is too short to be told "NO" as an adult, by our so called "betters".
 

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I have used the standard SAI muzzle brake a lot and I think it works very well. It did not negatively affect accuracy and it looks ok.
 

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Having put a thousand+ rounds through a SEI USCG brake I question whether I'll buy another or anything similar. It's a beautiful piece of machining art and does the intended job admirably. It's also stubbornly difficult to get clean because of all the ports.

One of Ted Brown's CA-legal match-reamed dummy suppressors is currently on my shopping list. Might be worth a look for you, too.
Hoppes & pipe cleaners......slow process
 

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Get on Gunbroker and you'll see all types of great deals for M1A's, but 1 or 2 if you're lucky with a CA legal compensator, such bs. The outside of the SAI box and the rifle will have a sticker and a plastic tag warning about how it is illegal in mexifornia. Again, more bs. Piss on that, citizen of this country should be allowed to get whatever they want, regardless of state. Wasn't the Civil War fought to unite this nation? Instead these damn states and their damn governors and attorney generals are nothing more than tyrants and dictators. We should not feel obligated to follow illegal and or immoral laws that go against the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our own moral compasses. Damn these commie politicians.....Life is too short to be told "NO" as an adult, by our so called "betters".
Excellent point!!!DI4
 
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