M14 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have very little experience with my M14 (Fulton/Polytech build), so I haven't a clue how to address what my bolt it doing. Basically it gets stuck randomly both with and without rounds in the chamber; but not everytime. When it happens its when I pull the charging handle, it moves back about a quarter inch until the roller on the bolt fails to allow the bolt to start rotating. It is just begining to move back and rotate, but locks. The only way to move it is to put it into a padded vise and yank on it like hell. Hope I'm describing this clear enough. Any thoughts?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
perhaps you should take some closeups of all the parts that are associated with the problem.

places to check for foreign objects and clean

  • the bolt and the roller bearing
  • the op rod and the channel it travels down
  • the op rod guide, rod, and spring
  • the inside of the reciever
 

·
"Death From Above"
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
Do you know how to perform the tilt test? If so give it a try and see what happens I would check all that was mentioned above and pay close attention to the area where the bolt roller moves in the op rod. Make sure it's not buggered up. I assume you are using grease not oil for lubrication? If You discover while doing the tilt test that the op rod guide is misaligned it could very well cause your oprod to bind and also not engage the bolt roller properly. Also check and make sure the bolt roller did not detach from the bolt.
It's a start and I'm sure the suggestions your given on the forum will find the problem.

Is this a recent USGI bolt conversion done by Fulton? Just out of curiosity, if it was a recent conversion who's bolt is in the rifle now?
 

·
"Death From Above"
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
I could see it being a hammer but the op said the bolt does not move out of battery that's long before the rear of the boot comes into contact with the hammer. Not coming out of battery was the impression I was under.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,269 Posts
You need to isolate the problem by taking other parts out of the picture.How does the op rod move with no bolt. (Tilt test again) How does the bolt move with no OP rod. Is this a new problem and it used to work good? You say it is a Fulton polytech. What does that mean? You sent it to Fulton and they replaced the bolt. You bought a Fulton bolt and put it in yourself. Could be the OP rod guide is out of alignment, could be the bolt draging on the hammer too much (as I think lazerus) mentioned could be the barrel unscrewed from the reciever. I have a feeling if you tear it down to the bare reciever you will find the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Holy shniekies; I figured out the issue and am hoping there's an easy fix.

Soooo, I have a Springfield M1a that I picked up like a week ago in a trade and decided to take it apart and compare. I didn't do this earlier because I've never been able to get an op-rod off in under 10-15 minutes and was already frustrated enough. Long story short, I broke it down and immediately recognized a glaring difference in the two bolts. The Fulton I'm having trouble with is the top one in the pic, and the SAI is on bottom. The Fulton with the TRW bolt appears to have a different kind of roller than the SAI, and mine appears to be missing the inner ring, right? Does the TRW bolts have two rings that comprise the roller? The bottom pic is one from a Google search of a random TRW bolt that looks like it has two rings for a roller correct? Is this an easy fix; do these rollers swap out easily?



 

·
"Death From Above"
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
Ah the bolt roller is not on the bolt it came off. Its held on by a little retaining clip and there is a tool used to reinstall it. I would probably want to change the retaining clip before before putting it back together, do you have the roller? A couple of memeners have made there own tools and have a method for getting it back in place. It's something I have not had to do yet. If that's the one that was built by Fulton I would call them and tell them your sending the bolt in for replacment if a lost bolt roller. Are you sure it's not stuck in the grease anywhere like in the grooves for the oprod?
Looks like your clip is still there.What your looking at is nit a different roller but the stud on the bolt the roller sits on.
I would also check and make sure the inside of the oprod where the bolt is supposed to roll is nit buggered up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
414 Posts
Holy shniekies; I figured out the issue and am hoping there's an easy fix.

Soooo, I have a Springfield M1a that I picked up like a week ago in a trade and decided to take it apart and compare. I didn't do this earlier because I've never been able to get an op-rod off in under 10-15 minutes and was already frustrated enough. Long story short, I broke it down and immediately recognized a glaring difference in the two bolts. The Fulton I'm having trouble with is the top one in the pic, and the SAI is on bottom. The Fulton with the TRW bolt appears to have a different kind of roller than the SAI, and mine appears to be missing the inner ring, right? Does the TRW bolts have two rings that comprise the roller? The bottom pic is one from a Google search of a random TRW bolt that looks like it has two rings for a roller correct? Is this an easy fix; do these rollers swap out easily?



perhaps you should take some closeups of all the parts that are associated with the problem.

places to check for foreign objects and clean

  • the bolt and the roller bearing
  • the op rod and the channel it travels down
  • the op rod guide, rod, and spring
  • the inside of the reciever
The first thing i said to check....I may be young and new to this rifle but it never hurts to check for cleanliness!RNGR1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ah the bolt roller is not on the bolt it came off. Its held on by a little retaining clip and there is a tool used to reinstall it. I would probably want to change the retaining clip before before putting it back together, do you have the roller? A couple of memeners have made there own tools and have a method for getting it back in place. It's something I have not had to do yet. If that's the one that was built by Fulton I would call them and tell them your sending the bolt in for replacment if a lost bolt roller. Are you sure it's not stuck in the grease anywhere like in the grooves for the oprod?
Looks like your clip is still there.What your looking at is nit a different roller but the stud on the bolt the roller sits on.
I would also check and make sure the inside of the oprod where the bolt is supposed to roll is nit buggered up.
Thanks so much. This was my first M14, bought it in April, so its been an education by fire. It came like this from the last owner cuz I remember now him pointing at the roller saying "be careful cuz that thing will just falls out when you disassemble and its easy to lose". USN3

So the part missing is the "stud" the roller sits on? Can I get that part, like from Brownell, and do it myself?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,636 Posts
Thanks so much. This was my first M14, bought it in April, so its been an education by fire. It came like this from the last owner cuz I remember now him pointing at the roller saying "be careful cuz that thing will just falls out when you disassemble and its easy to lose". USN3

So the part missing is the "stud" the roller sits on? Can I get that part, like from Brownell, and do it myself?
No, the part that is missing is the roller. You need to buy a roller and probably another clip
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,636 Posts
Here are a couple of images to help you figure out how the bolt is constructed. They are from Jerry kuhnhausen's book "The U.S. .30 Caliber Gas Operated Service Rifles" page 259.

This roller has been partially cut away and you can see the clip (a little to the right of the center of the roller stud), stud, and roller. This roller has been partially cut away and pried out of it's normal position, normally the groove in the roller is positioned over the clip.


Here is a schematic of the bolt assembly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Here is a schematic of the bolt assembly.
Below is a close up of it; from that schematic it looks like it's the roller stud I need; I definitely have the roller and clip. If you look at the pic the roller is there, but loosely wobbling around on the bolt and clip; there's no stud. I might just get a new roller and clip too; can I buy all three parts and do it myself?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,636 Posts
It looks like you have a Polytech receiver (the screw on the side of the receiver was done only by the Chinese) and your bolt is probably a Chinese made bolt. I'm not familiar with their components so it's hard for me to speak about specifics but I know that some of their bolts had problems because they were soft and I think that's the problem you have.

It looks like the stud has worn down in it's diameter and the roller has worn from the inside out, it's outside diameter is correct but the inside is larger than it should be.

If that is true then you will need a new bolt and that will need to be fitted to the rifle for headspace. I recommend taking the rifle to an experienced M1A gun smith and have him install a new bolt.
 

·
"Death From Above"
Joined
·
11,935 Posts
Rammac always gives good advice and I second the motion. It looks like the roller is hanging on the stud but its seems to be missing something. Pop that silver looking ring off that looks like the roller, If it has been a Chronic problem, considering what the previous owner said I would have it looked at as rammac said. Whatever you do don't send it to futon they will take you for the ride of your life. They want money just to say hello to the box as it arrives in the mail. Looks like the roller ad clip need to be changed but as rammac said ya cant go wrong having it looked at. I don't know if the poly roller is the same either. If the stud is buggered up form repeated banging on the inside of the op rod the bolt may need to be changed. I find it hard to believe that the bolt would get buggered rather than the op rod. Have you inspected the inside of the op rod yet?

If you shoot me a PM with your location (yonder LOL ) I or anyone of the members like rammac for example can recommend an armorer.
The other option is to order a clip and roller and see if it fixes the problem of the roller constantly coming off. It could simply be the clip is toast. Does the stud look like its the same exct outside diameter as your other bolt? If so give it a try and put up a new thread asking the forum members what they did to make a home made bolt roller spring clip tool. A couple of guys come to mind right off the bat. Jaildog is the consummate home tool builder, Tonyben is another but he is over seas and may not be signing on as much and there is Patriot armory, I don't think there is anything that gent cant build if he sees it in his minds eye. You may also do a search for the tool I know I have seen posts about members coming up with a rube goldberg device to get that clip in there. Come to think of it I need to get one of those tools myself if the problem ever presents itself. I know a dude upstate ny, Hueygunner who may have some insight on the tool as well as have NOS USGI rollers and clips. drop him a pm also asking for a price let him know you are putting it on a poly bolt. This is not a big problem so don't sweat it. Just make sure that the op rod did not take a beating. Also I personally have a tool called a bolt roller grease. You fill it with grease and smash in on over the roller, I think guys are using .45 cal cartridge shells to do the same thing. If you don't have a 45 shell put out an sos and I am sure someone will put one in the mail to you for 44 cents. Keep us posted on the progress and if you find the tool let us know as well.

PS a word of advice and please don't take this the wrong way, in the future, check in with us before you start forcing anything in a vice. I say this because I am concerned as I mentioned a few times the inside of the op rod where it was getting hammered by the stud. It may need some dressing up if its buggered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, the bolt itself is a TRW; the only thing left from the polytech after Fulton was done with it was the receiver. Everything else was replaced: fulton barrel, HRA Op Rod, TRW trigger, and TRW bolt. The peculiar thing about the roller is how much bigger in diameter it is than the one on my SAI. You can see in the pic that the bottom one (SAI) has a roller with no wiggle room, wrapped tight around the black stud. It looks like the one in question has a roller 30% larger in diameter, and that it's missing the something it should be wrapped around. Does it look that roller usually just snap onto the stud of the bolt, or is there something on a TRW bolt that's supposed to be between the roller and stud that I'm missing; the roller on this TRW is just so much wider, see:

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
420 Posts
Looks to me like part of your roller departed. If you can see the retaining ring with the roller installed, the roller isn't right. Part of it might have just fractured and broken off. From what I remember seeing, a roller installation tool just looks like a pair of pliers with a round hole drilled between the closed jaws. Basically you need to compress the retaining ring in order to slide the roller over it. Once installed, it can't be removed without damaging either the roller or the bolt.

- Ivan.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top