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Discussion Starter #1
So what do you think is the best chamfer and de burring tool?
Is this the best tool for getting my brass to have the most Consistent chamfer from case to case? Would I be safe to use this Tool with Both flat base bullets and Boat tailed bullets like the Sierra 168 gr HPBT?
Sinclair is known for making the best case trimmer and PP Uniformer what about there Chamfer tool?
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/case-mouth-chamfering/sinclair-carbide-vld-case-mouth-chamfering-tool-prod35016.aspx

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/case-neck-chamfering-tools/
This article says to not use the Use a 22° or 28° chamferer can reduce the risk of cutting a jacket when using VLD bullets though. So does that mean the Sinclair tool is a no go with Boat tailed bullets?
 

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I've only ever used the standard 45 degree cutter and I've never had problems with shaving the jackets from any of my boat tailed bullets, I do remember cutting copper from time to time on my flat based bullets but that was before I bought Sinclair's Bench Rest Press


The ram and the die seems to be a little more reliably lined up when I seat my bullets then when I used my old RCBS or Hornady presses. I also use a Redding Competition Bullet Seating die


I don't see where the VLDs are any more of a problem than any other boat tailed bullet, the angle at the base is about 8.5 degrees vs. around 9 degrees for some other bullets. On the other hand, I do see where a 22 or 28 degree cutter would be better for flat based bullets.

If I were buying one of these tools I'd probably go with the Sinclair only because it seems to be that it would help reduce the chances of cutting flat based bullets and their spiral cutter would probably give you a clean case mouth with less effort than the 45 degree cutters.
 
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I take that back, I have tried the RCBS 3-Way cutter also.


It does a nice job of chamferring but it's also a 45 degree cutter if I remember correctly. The only problem I had was getting the cutter setup correctly but once I had that done it cut the inside chamfer, deburred, and trimmed the case to the proper length. Now that I've got some other bugs worked out of my reloading process I might even go back to using it, especially since I can machine my own parts if necessary. DI5
 
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I have been using an RCBS "rocket style" tool for 40 years without any problem. I did not know of any other way until this thread. Am I missing something here?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
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Just a note that you may or may not find interesting....

I recently had some match grade ammo out at the range. Federal Gold Medal with 175 Sierra MatchKings, and Black Hills Match also loaded with 175 SMKs. Looking at the ammo, I noticed that the Federal GMM had shavings of copper bullet jacket metal at the neck, all of them. The Black Hills with the same bullets had no shavings.

Apparently Federal doesn't care if their GMM ammo shaves a bit of bullet jacket, and Federal GMM ammo usually shoots well. Maybe it doesn't matter much...
 
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Just a note that you may or may not find interesting....

I recently had some match grade ammo out at the range. Federal Gold Medal with 175 Sierra MatchKings, and Black Hills Match also loaded with 175 SMKs. Looking at the ammo, I noticed that the Federal GMM had shavings of copper bullet jacket metal at the neck, all of them. The Black Hills with the same bullets had no shavings.

Apparently Federal doesn't care if their GMM ammo shaves a bit of bullet jacket, and Federal GMM ammo usually shoots well. Maybe it doesn't matter much...
That's my guess too, what's more, I agree. Maybe a bench rest shooter will see a difference but I don't think that it will make a discernible difference with even the best M1A shooter and rifle.
 
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Now you've stirred the pot and got my annal retentive side going again. GI2

So after checking around for a good chamfer tool I setup my old RCBS 3-Way cutter and tested it. Like a lot of people my first impressions are shaped more by my experiences rather than reality and this definitely applies to my opinions of tools. I've learned a lot since trying that RCBS cutter for the first time so I decided to try it again and see how it works now that I understand things a little better.

So to put it bluntly, it's a great little tool. It cuts the cases to length, chamfers the inside of the mouth, and deburs the outside of the mouth all in one operation. Yes it takes a little to verify that the cutters are all in the proper position but it's more of a detailed inspection issue rather than any real problem with setting the tool up; the parts just seem to fall in place.

The good.
The cases were trimmed pretty consistently, most were within plus or minus .001" but out of 100 cases I saw a max variance of plus or minus .002". The larger variance was only a few cases out of 100, something like 5-10 cases. That's not too bad in my opinion, not as good as I get with another technique but tolerable considering how much faster the process is overall. I think that the variance was actually caused by the base of the case being at an angle to the long axis, more on that later.

The chamfers seem to be at an angle of 45 degrees but they are very consistent and the finish is excellent, very smooth and shiny.

The deburring is almost perfect, a very slight angle to the outside of the mouth but so slight that you can't really see it without magnification. No burs were left at all.

The bad.
Actually there wasn't anything that I'd consider bad, just not designed as well as I'd like.

What I'd like to see.
I found that Forster has their own 3-in-1 cutter and I like the design better.


My best case length cutter is Sinclair's trimmer.


What I like best about the Sinclair trimmer is how it holds the case, they use a bushing that holds the case by the case wall rather then the base. The base of a case usually becomes out of shape and clamping on the base causes the case to be off center from it's long axis which causes the mouth to be cut out of perpendicularity form the case's long axis. This creates a little difference in the amount of friction around the bullet and I believe that this causes a slight amount of gyration in the bullet as it leaves the bore. On the other hand, resized cases have had their walls reshaped to be concentric (within closer tolerances than the uncorrected base) and the Sinclair tool uses a bushing that fits around this concentric case. This results in the case being aligned closer to the long axis and it helps reduce any error in case mouth perpendicularity (in relation to the case's long axis).

The problem is that the Sinclair tool only does case length but the Forster tool does all three cuts just like my RCBS tool, but there is a problem, the Forster tool only fits the Forster case trimmer which I don't have and the Forster case trimmer holds the case at the base. So I want a tool that uses bushings like Sinclair but uses the Forster 3-in-1 trimmer...enter the amateur machinist.

The Forster cutter simply slides over the shaft that turns the cutter and they use an allen screw to hold it in place. That shaft is smaller for Forster tools than it is with the Sinclair tool. So I bought the Forster cutter and I intend to make my own shaft with the proper shape so that I can use the cutter with a bushing style case trimming tool.

I'll post how it turns out.
 

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I want to thank TheShooter, he prompted me to investigate what chamfer tool was best and as a result I found a really good 3-way cutter which has reduced my case processing time and decreased the number of steps I use to prep my brass.

Like most people I don't really like having to do three cutting steps to prepare the case mouth (trimming to length, chamferring the inside, and deburring the outside). I was aware that 3-way cutters are made that will do all three cuts at the same time and I already had the RCBS 3-Way cutter. I like the RCBS cutter but it wouldn't work with my Wilson trimmer, which I prefer to use for precision, so I started looking for an alternative. I ended finding the Forster tool and I liked it enough that I bought it.


This cutter slides over the cutter shaft of a Forster trimmer and then you tighten it with an allen screw. It cuts the inside chamfer to an angle of 14 degrees and it cuts the outside of the mouth to an angle of 30 degrees.

The problem I had was that I only have the RCBS and the Wilson case trimmers and both have a larger diameter cutter shaft. Once I received the Forster 3-in-1 cutter I had to bore out the center of it and I reduced the length by .300" so that I could fit the trimmer on to the Wilson tool.


Now I can install the cutter on my Wilson trimmer



and my RCBS trimmer



After testing the Forster 3-in-1 on both trimmers and comparing against the RCBS 3-Way cutter I'm satisfied that the best cutter is the Forster. The most consistent cuts (angles and trim-to-length) were achieved with the Wilson trimmer but there was only a very little difference between it and the RCBS trimmer. The trim-to-lengths varied by less than .001" most of the time with both but the RCBS had the greatest maximum variation (up to .002"). The fastest trimmer was the RCBS because I use a drill motor with it and the way the cases are loaded in to the trimmer is faster.

In my opinion, if I want consistent, high quality cuts and I don't need speed then I'll use my Wilson trimmer with the Forster 3-in-1 cutter, but most often I'll use the Forster cutter on the RCBS trimmer powered with my hand drill. I still get very consistent cuts and I can process my brass much faster.
 

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I spent several years with a Lyman hand trimmers and RCBS chamfer tool and painfully did each piece of Lapua match brass each and every time and doing 300 cases took some time then I jumped on the power trimmer wagon and purchased a Giraud trimmer and as long as I consistently size I can get +/- .001 and notice no difference in accuracy out to 300 yards and time wise I can prep the 300 cases in less than an hour.
 

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The OP was interested in finding a consistent chamfer and deburring tool, I went one step further and started talking about a 3-way tool so I derailed the original intent a little...sorry about that.

I'd love to get Giraud but I had to work with what I have, I like the Giraud as a case length trimmer but I still like Wilson's design using a bushing. I've also used the World's Finest Trimmer (WFT) and I've found that it's capable of a pretty high rate of production too and for a very reasonable price.

I think if you account for the fact that you are doing three cutting steps at once (TTL, chamber, deburr) with the RCBS/ Forster setup it's hard to beat the cost and time effectiveness.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
RAMMAC Thanks for the extra information. Some people would say we are to anal when it comes to getting everything thing uniform. Everything from the Primer pocket, FH, case mouth, trim length, head space with the shoulder. etc etc. I purchased a forster co ax press off sinclair a few years back and love it. Little to none bullet run out. The case is perfectly centered to the die.

Anyways back to the trimmer, I do have the RCBS 3 way cutter for my 223 but not 308. It does seem very nice. But I wanted to look deeper into other options out there. The forster cutter looks to be almost identical to the RCBS.

I recently purchased a electric case trimmer called Trim it http://eztrimit.com/ It is Mic adjusted and goes off the shoulder of the case just like the sinclair trimmer uses which also uses a Bushing to hold the case by its shoulder. I am going to purchase the sinclair case trimmer soon to.
The trim it puts a factory chamfer on the end of the brass so I am going to have to use either the Sinclair chamfer VLD tool or the regular (rocket style) chamfer and debur tool.

I do not see how one can get a chamfer and de bur that is more consistent and uniform then the RCBS 3 way cutter or the forster cutter. I think it would be almost impossible to get every case to have the same chamfer with a hand tool.
 

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I recently purchased a electric case trimmer called Trim it http://eztrimit.com/ It is Mic adjusted and goes off the shoulder of the case just like the sinclair trimmer uses which also uses a Bushing to hold the case by its shoulder. I am going to purchase the sinclair case trimmer soon to.
Actually the Wilson/ Sinclair trimmer's bushing doesn't contact the case shoulder at all, it uses a straight walled bushing that is tapered like the case wall; that's why I like it a little better than the other trimmers. Most trimmers reference the shoulder or the case head for the trim-to-length but the Wilson/ Sinclair trimmer's bushing uses the case wall. To my way of thinking, since you resize and shape the case walls every time you resize the case then the case wall bushing should make for a more consistent reference.

Now if I'm correct and the case is held in a more consistent way, then the three-way cutter will create a more consistent case mouth cut; the trim-to-length, chamfer, and deburring should all be more consistent.

The Trim-It case trimmer looks to be nicer than the World's Finest Trimmer in that you can set the actual trim-to-length a lot easier, but both do use the shoulder for a reference.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Actually the Wilson/ Sinclair trimmer's bushing doesn't contact the case shoulder at all, it uses a straight walled bushing that is tapered like the case wall; that's why I like it a little better than the other trimmers. Most trimmers reference the shoulder or the case head for the trim-to-length but the Wilson/ Sinclair trimmer's bushing uses the case wall. To my way of thinking, since you resize and shape the case walls every time you resize the case then the case wall bushing should make for a more consistent reference.

Now if I'm correct and the case is held in a more consistent way, then the three-way cutter will create a more consistent case mouth cut; the trim-to-length, chamfer, and deburring should all be more consistent.

The Trim-It case trimmer looks to be nicer than the World's Finest Trimmer in that you can set the actual trim-to-length a lot easier, but both do use the shoulder for a reference.
Thanks for the correction, RAMMAC.
I get + - .002 thousands with the Trim it. That isn't to bad for it being electric. The Mic adjustment it uses is really fantastic for quick and easy adjustments. I think you would be hard pressed to find any electric case trimmer not very with in .002 thousands. The other nice thing about the trimmer is it leaves a factory finish on the case mouth. Barley have to any de buring. If I had to rate it I would give it a 4 out of 5 stars
 

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Thanks for the correction, RAMMAC.
I get + - .002 thousands with the Trim it. That isn't to bad for it being electric. The Mic adjustment it uses is really fantastic for quick and easy adjustments. I think you would be hard pressed to find any electric case trimmer not very with in .002 thousands. The other nice thing about the trimmer is it leaves a factory finish on the case mouth. Barley have to any de buring. If I had to rate it I would give it a 4 out of 5 stars
I'm a tool junkie and I'll probably pick one up just because, of the type that use a shoulder bushing, this one looks like it's the best and having a first hand review of it helps give me a warm fuzzy about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm a tool junkie and I'll probably pick one up just because, of the type that use a shoulder bushing, this one looks like it's the best and having a first hand review of it helps give me a warm fuzzy about it.
I will try and get some first hand photos of it for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Here is some photos of the trimmer.
 

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I just ordered one Saturday. The fellow said they were working on a three-way. I mean, a tool that chamfers, de burs, and trims.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I just ordered one Saturday. The fellow said they were working on a three-way. I mean, a tool that chamfers, de burs, and trims.
That is awesome. Did he tell you how long until that will be ready?
 
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