M14 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Aloha,

I have a question on bedding of a M14 type receiver. How much downward or pressure do you create when bedding. I think the Kuhnhausen book said 40# of draw pressure, and Art Lupino said it is a "feel" thing, but I would like to know and learn maybe an easier way to measure this downward pressure when bedding the stock and receiver.

I am using a barrel spacer with shims under the barrel just after the gas cylinder when bedding. This makes the receiver end stick up and requires "X" amount of pressure to bring the receiver down towards the stock. This is where I would like to know if there is a simple means in which to measure this downward draw pressure?

I didn't want to Gorilla the receiver and end up with a barrel that "bowed" in the middle by putting a large barrel spacer. How do I know that I put enough pressure?

On my completed rifles, I have pressure draw at the front band where I can flex (or compress) the barrel and forearm with hand pressure. The rifles shoot well, but will it shoot better with more or less pressure? Do I have to just experiment and see? Hmmm... :?

I apologize if this question is disorganized, but I just started thinking about it when I was holding one of my rifles, and thought that it would be an interesting question.

Thank you for any help you can provide in this area.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
I think the foreend pressure is just a feel thing. For example on our real heavy stocks they are gonna be a 2 handed squeeze to get them to move but on a regular gi walnut stock most people can do it with one hand. I really recommend getting the proper bedding collar from brownells and the u clip. With as many stocks and rifles as you have especialy why risk doing it wrong or different at least with improvised tools? The collar I got a few years ago from brownells was identicle to the one we had made from ordinance drawings in the navy armory I worked in. It always worked perfect and each and every stock we bedded came out the same and perfect. I think if you have them all the same then ammo will be the only variable left and that can be tuned to your rifle. I have never seen an m-14 barrel that didn't like a lot of forend pressure. Even my heavy likes it. Free floated in the same stock it shot 2-3 inch groups. with the original stock ferrule back on and forend pressure back where I had it it went back to 1 hole groups with the same ammo.
If yours is at a point where you really feel the barrel is bending then you may be wise to stop and look at it or get the right tool. They can and will bend if you do it wrong. I bent one on a rem 788 once somehow. It wasn't from bedding or abuse or anything I can think of but that bullet sure started hitting 3 feet to the left all of a sudden at 50 yards. You could see the bend looking down the bore. Actually that gun was fine before I loaned it to my dad come to think of it. It wouldn't be the first he ruined for me.
One last thing : USE STEEL BED!
I love that stuff!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Aloha "Guest" I really appreciate the advice! I do have the brownells bedding collar and bedding fixture set.

In this pic, I have prepped the barrel with the collar and the trigger "U" pin is at the bottom of the pic.


This bedding job went silky smooth and I got exactly the amount of draw that this collar allows. However, I was looking at the Art Lupino syle of bedding (I only call it that, because he made a video) and thought that his style was a good one as well. I follow all of the steps using the Badger bedding fixture set and a barrel brace that I made.

The project in itself was great and went very well... there is definitely a solid draw at the front band... but I was curious to see if there was a way to determine if it was the correct amount or not... A friend of mine, M14Dan, said that he puts "a lot" of downward draw on his rifle and it shoots like a tack driver... so I began to wonder and hence this post!

Thank you for responding. I definitely need to look more into this.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
draw pressure

Dig,
I bought an electronic fishscale at Wallyworld to measure trigger pulls and such. (Stole the idea from another fella.)
So I read your thread and I go "hhhmmmmm".
So I took a piece of paracord and put it around the forearm near the ferrule and hooked the cord to the scale. Rifle is laying on the bench and I'm securing it with my off-hand. I zero the scale and then pull the scale towards me which is pulling the forearm towards the bbl. When I see the ferrule move away from the band I take a quick peek at the scale. High 20s.
Now I'm thinking to rebed it and maybe place shims on the bedding collar (like yours).
Mine shoots better since the bedding job, but Kuenhausen states 40 lb. average. Duff says maybe 10-15 or thereabouts w/ this method, but doesn't really give any other numbers.
So maybe after I try some other loads I've come up with I'll rebed it with more pressure and see if I can get it to shoot "Mo'betta, yeah?!"

Thoughts, anyone?
Spud
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Aloha "Spud",

That idea of using a scale makes sense. Throughout this post, I have estimated and guesstimated but I never really measured the draw to get a base line measurement. Thanks for the advice, I think that is an excellent suggestion.

"Mo'betta, yeah?!"
I'd swear that you were from Hawaii... most of us speak that funny pidgin... :lol: Hey, Spud, why don't you register... we got lots of room... In any case, Thanks!

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
pigin

HA!
I spent two tours over at Marine Barracks. '72-'75 and '87-'91. In fact I retired on the Arizona Memorial summer of '91.
Had a lot of good friends and good times over there. Miss the HELL out of it.

I'll try to get registered.
Out
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Welcome Aboard SpudUSMC!!! Glad you signed up! I think this will be a "fun" tour for you! Lots of good people here!

So, you retired in Hawaii, eh? No wonder you speak that pidgin like a local... :lol: The weather has just started to get cooler, so it's a relief from the summer heat!

Hawaii hasn't changed much since '91... except firearms getting more expensive... but the beaches are still nice! :lol:

Aloha, Best Wishes and Welcome Aboard!

Tom O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
draw pressure

Well Tom, I decided to do it. Couldn't stand only 20 lbs. at the front. Committed to skimming it and increasing draw pressure.
I'm a sucker for punishment!
Spud
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
611 Posts
hey spudusmc, I reenlisted on the arizona at that time. It was june I think. I was gonna get married on there too by my captain but those plans fell through and I had to fly home real fast, get married, and fly back to pearl to go out on another west pac. We spent a year total gone. Boy was that fun!
Dig, You know different stocks are gona be different pressures even bedded exactly the same. The heavies are gonna be the hardest or maybe a mcmillan heavy but the e-2 and skinnier wood stocks are the lightest in my experience when bedded. Skinny forends. Just bed them all the same and use the proper tools and don't worry about a measurement. That is just too much to worry about. Man are you trying to give yourself gray hair?
Oh I was that guest up there. I keep forgetting to sign in. I have been sniffing too much varsol lately I think! Oh My wife is mentioning a vacation to hawaii a lot lately. Dropping hints I think. Is there A way to bring a toy or two out there to play or is it worth it. We are taking a ship if we do go. You couldn't get me on a plane if there was 10,000,000,000,000 dollars in it for me! can I just go shooting some of yours if we get the chance to meet? I promise to clean them real well when we are done! I'll let ya know if we do decide anything in the near future. I was thinking of a graduation present for her phd she should be done with in the spring. I hope!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Aloha Dan:

Maybe coming to Hawaii? Wow! 8O Cool! If you do come over and want to shoot, it would be easiest to just use one of mine... I am sure with the stepped up home land security, it will be more difficult to travel with firearms. Plus the added weight and bulk...

But I would love to see your rifles and of course, try shooting them... that would be a gas! The public range here is max at 430 yds. :cry: But the people are GREAT! Nice people and they love to talk "Guns"...

Grey hair? Man, it turned grey back when I turned 30 and I can't remember much back that far... :lol: But okay! Good Deal. I will leave the rifles as is. I might be second guessing myself... :lol:

I hope Spud's project gets done and he can give us a report or two.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
draw pressure

Probably get it bedded tonight.
Probably won't get to the range until the 11th.
Bummer.
But I'll let ya know.

Dan,
Ain't that Memorial somethin? Quite a place. Tend ta tear up when I see it.

Take care, fellas.
Spud
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
draw pressure

Don't have long...
I used the same set-up as you did, but I added a coupla brass shims to the collar/front band interface that were aproximately 3/32" total. Then I clamped w/ my homemade hold down fixture GENTLY. (It's a clone of the Badger unit.) Just enough for the rear of the receiver to touch the stock.
I did a heavy skim-bed w/ Marine-Tex.
Gotta go give flu-shots.
Later
Spud
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
Back from the range.
Draw was too tight on the TG. Unsnapped a coupla three times while shooting the Aussie.
Gonna rebed the trigger group tonight or tomorrow night.
Groups with Aussie went down to about 2.5" at 100 yds over a plastic rest.
Match prepped Fed. cases with 165 Sierra HPBT Game Kings went to 2 .25 with a charge of 4895.
Groups were more "round". So that's good.
I really don't like the flimsy "whatchamacallit" (flange?) that hooks to the stock ferrule. It came on the rifle from SA. I unitized the gas cylinder to it and since then I have purchased some extras along with a coupla GI gas cylinders and pistons. I may unitize another one with a real GI flange or replace the one on the SA cylinder.
Shoots very nice, though.
Got a barely used oprod from the CMP marked w/ 7267064 and 66118 w/ something inside a circle. Slipped right on and passed the tilt test.
This is TOOmuch fun!
Take care,
and SEMPER-FI!
Spud
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Aloha Spud,

I was hoping you would come back with a range report!

The Duff or Kuhnhausen book said that there should be 8-10# of draw pressure at the front! Hmmm... that is much less than what Art Lupino said it should be... Also, I felt factory SA bedding and it appears stronger than 10# at the draw?!? :?

So I am looking at all of the bedded rifles that I have (M14 types) and seeing if there is any standard... this is definitely something that I would like to have measured than to assume a "feel thing".

Your experimentation and testing is interesting to me... Keep up the good work! BTW: Is the SA front band different from a USGI front band? I ask Jeff (HueyGunner) to do mine and the unitized gas cylinders that he did looked better than the ones from Springfield Armory... these were the AMU screw type and not the welded, which is what I prefer.

Please let us know what the final outcome is on your project tests! Thank you.

Aloha,

Tom O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,610 Posts
draw pressure

FRONT BAND!
Brain fart last night...
BIG difference between the GI and the SA POS. The GI is thicker and more symetric (sp?).
Rebedded the TG last night. Will knock it apart, clean it up and eval. tonight.
The SA front band actually flexes when I release the pressure on the forearm by squeezing the front end together with my hand.
Duff's book says the 10-15 or whatever.
Kuenhausen says 40 is average.
Probably be a coupla weeks before I shoot again.
Spud
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top