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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Back in Jan of 09 I posted about a vendor selling some so called virgin Lake City primed brass. I bought a hundred lot to try out and as posted by another forum member they were marked FC 08. Had put them on the shelf until last weekend and then tried loading them. A few felt very easy to seat so I put them aside and continued to load 50 rounds. Took out one the easy ones apart and tried to see if resizing would help. Reseated the bullet and again it went in easily. Check it and the others out and the pictures explain what I found. Out of the 50 rounds I loaded 22 of the necks were split. Has anyone else experienced this? Was seating 175 Sierra bullets.
 

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I recently picked up some FC GMM , along with FC M1a brass
and some ABT brass, when i re sized them the GMM was super easy to do followed by the ABT, now the FC M1a brass was a whole other Booger it was the Hardest brass to Re Size I had to put some butt into it
I know for a fact it is once fired.I took a Red Paint Marker to the rims so they will stand out. I will see how long they last and then post a report
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've reloaded quiet a few rounds with LC brass and never had this happen before. I'm wondering if this was a bad production run. I never reload brass more than 5 times before discarding. The 5th time I shoot it through my SAR8 which has a fluted chamber. This scores the brass up enough that it's not worth reloading.
 

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That's not Lake City brass. It's Federal nato brass.

I have my suspicions that it's not virgin either. That, or it was not properly annealed. Or not annealed at all.

Miltary brass usually has visible annealing marks ont the neck and shoulder of the case.GITEN

9th
 

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I recently picked up some FC GMM , along with FC M1a brass
and some ABT brass, when i re sized them the GMM was super easy to do followed by the ABT, now the FC M1a brass was a whole other Booger it was the Hardest brass to Re Size I had to put some butt into it
I know for a fact it is once fired.I took a Red Paint Marker to the rims so they will stand out. I will see how long they last and then post a report
Did the primer pockets in the FC M1A brass seem tight? You might want to section one FC M1A case and one FC GMM case and compare the thicknesses, especially in the case head and primer pocket.
 

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Now that pull-down brass isn't available, I'm a little leary of buying "never fired" military brass. It is my suspicion (no evidence to back it up) that the brass is "rejected" brass. I still buy "once-fired" brass. Yes, I get one less reload and the brass isn't cheap but I can predict what I get.
 

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Good job cutting the cases. The pics look a bit fuzzy on my computer. The thing to look for is the case head thickness right at the primer pocket. The standard FC cases get loose primer pockets because they are thin in this area. Thinner than most other brands. The case thickness right around the flash hole. This is the the area to compare. If they are thicker in this area than standard FC cases they may hold up a bit better. From the pics it looks like the whole M1A case is thicker but it should be measured.
 

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That's not Lake City brass. It's Federal nato brass.

I have my suspicions that it's not virgin either. That, or it was not properly annealed. Or not annealed at all.

Miltary brass usually has visible annealing marks ont the neck and shoulder of the case.GITEN

9th
9th is right. That brass is Federal and NOT LC. Certainly a misrepresentation on the sellers part. FC brass is not the best for reloading even if it is Fed GMM. Brass is too soft and the primer pockets give out after the second reloading. Polishing mil-spec annealed cases a couple of times will remove any evidence of the original annealing. I don't even bother prepping any federal brass for reloading. dozier
 

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Please don't hijack the OP's thread.GI2

We are talking about his splitting FC case necks.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
9th is right. That brass is Federal and NOT LC. Certainly a misrepresentation on the sellers part. FC brass is not the best for reloading even if it is Fed GMM. Brass is too soft and the primer pockets give out after the second reloading. Polishing mil-spec annealed cases a couple of times will remove any evidence of the original annealing. I don't even bother prepping any federal brass for reloading. dozier
It was advertised as LC brass. I assumed that since Federal took over the production it was stamped as FC08. I have email the seller ( a reputable supplier we all know ) and have not yet heard back from them. I guess because of the snow storms in the midwest. I only purchased 100 pieces for $40. to see what it was before I invested any more. I'm glad I did now. I use only LC brass when I can find it . AS posted we all know Federal brass is real soft. I don't want to cut any open in case the seller wants to make things right. Thanks for the replies.
 

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That's not Lake City brass. It's Federal nato brass.

I have my suspicions that it's not virgin either. That, or it was not properly annealed. Or not annealed at all.

Miltary brass usually has visible annealing marks ont the neck and shoulder of the case.GITEN

9th
I agree with the above, maybe that is why it was for Sale to begin with!
 

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I have a bunch of range pick-up once fired FC brass. Its okay and consistent but I only push 168's @ 2550-2600 fps through them since they are for practice and short range fire only.

I have a few FC 08 NATO cases too. I loaded some of them up and some had loose primer pockets. I sealed the primer pockets with varnish and marked the cases. They go in the scrape bin after firing. I think I'll toss all of them next time come to think of it.

Winchester is the best commercial brass you can get when considering price, quality, and availability. Winchester is virgin brass with a few more quality processes then FC and RP brass.

LC is great but your don't know where its all coming from (if its already been fired). Machine gun fired brass is toast and not worth re-loading. Bolt rifle fired LC brass is most desired.

You should have no more then 5 re-loadings before you toss the brass....or have a higher risk of case head separation.
 

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LC is great but your don't know where its all coming from (if its already been fired). Machine gun fired brass is toast and not worth re-loading. Bolt rifle fired LC brass is most desired.
I would hazard a guess that 98% of the LC once-fired available out there is machine-gun fired. It's not necessarily toast, you just have to process (or buy it processed like I do...) it to make it work reliably.
 

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I picked up some brass like that from a company in Utah called Treadstone Ent. (no I am not kidding) last summer. They still have it listed as New Lake City brass even though it is Federal 08 NATO pulled down brass with Winchester pimer. I even E-mailed them and they said they would change the discription, but they have not. I had to brush out the sealant in the neck and resize the necks because they are all out of round. But they fired through two reloads. The ones I purchased are not shiny like yours and I can see the annealing marks on the cases. I used 147gr. Winchester FMJBT bullets in those cases. These cases are selling for $12.50 per 50.

Glenn
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Checked out the mentioned web site Treadstone Ent. At least they were honest enough to put in the description that it was marked FC 08 With the NATO stamp unlike the people I bought from. Sent them off a 2nd email tonight since I haven't heard back from them. I'll give them a week or so to get back to me and if I don't heard from them I'll let you guys know who it was. I don't want to say anything negative about someone without giving them a chance to make things right.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Got an email from Graf & Sons this morning telling me that since I bought it 2 years ago that they will not take it back. They gave me the phone # of the company they bought it from BVAC and toll me to contact them. How's that for customer service!!
 

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How did you pay for the brass ? If it was payed for with money order or credit card, you have recourse, I would send all of it back and demand a refund. The safety issues here alone, are cause for litigation and I would make that clear to them in your next correspondence. They did you no favors anyway with the price of double what they should cost. Twenty cents each will buy you some really nice once fired brass.

I found two split necks from once fired LC stamped machinegun fired brass, before resizing....but in the grand scheme of things, this is an inconsequential number , because I have gone through many, many thousands of them.

As for FC brass being soft, I have my doubts that it is much softer as most say it is. Perhaps a touch softer than others, but not astonomically softer. I am on one batch right now that I have fired 9 times, in the M14, and there are no indications of problems. Those of you that throw yours away after five loadings, and can guarantee they are only 5 times loaded, I would be glad to do a test for you on them, just send them to me instead of the garbage. I do not recommend loading this many times. This is only a test. In this test currently being done, I have LC,FC, Win., FC commercial, PPU, RA,Win comm.,
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I sent BVAC an email letting them know I am not happy. We'll see what comes of it. I let Grafs know they lost a customer. I'll wait and see if I get a response from them but I doubt it.
 

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Just generically, if the brass ya'll have got is working OK for you, that's good news. But I'm steering clear of BOTH FC and late-model LC until ATK-Alliant-Federal Cartridge gets their act together. I'll stick with Winchester and LC with some age on it.
 

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Just generically, if the brass ya'll have got is working OK for you, that's good news. But I'm steering clear of BOTH FC and late-model LC until ATK-Alliant-Federal Cartridge gets their act together. I'll stick with Winchester and LC with some age on it.
When did ATK take over LC?
 
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