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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
W/O going into this again in minute detail. Sent my stock SAI M1A back for an occasional failure of bolt going to battery. While it was there, I asked SAI to install NM sights, unitize gas system and do a trigger job. SAI replaced the receiver, the barrel, extractor,spring's,etc.as well as requested extra's. The rifle is now much less accurate than when original, plus it now has the problem of occasional failure to eject 165 gr. loads. Seems to function fine though on surplus NATO 147gr. Groups at 200 yards with fixed 6x42 scope are like 8 inches. Flyer's abound! NM. Irons, sighted at 100 yd. are miserable. Doesn't matter the ammo. Radway grn. Port.,or hand loaded 165 gr. Sierra BT. Lest some of you might think it's me, I just scored 3rd in a high power off-hand rifle match with a pre 64, Win. featherweight in 30.06. Need advice as I'm sick of spending any more time or $ on this rifle. Thanks in advance for any suggestion's forum members may have.
 

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Wow. I feel your frustration. Maybe you were born to be a boltgunner. In fairness, we could give you a string of SWAG's, but it can get drawn out to suggest this or that without doing a complete accurizing job on the rifle. That, of course, would be driven by what you want and expect from your M1A. They're a high-maintenance type of stick with a steep learning curve, no getting around it. If you just want a consistent 2 moa gas gun with fewer headaches, trade/sell it and get a CMP Garand with a good barrel.
 

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W/O going into this again in minute detail. Sent my stock SAI M1A back for an occasional failure of bolt going to battery. While it was there, I asked SAI to install NM sights, unitize gas system and do a trigger job. SAI replaced the receiver, the barrel, extractor,spring's,etc.as well as requested extra's. The rifle is now much less accurate than when original, plus it now has the problem of occasional failure to eject 165 gr. loads. Seems to function fine though on surplus NATO 147gr. Groups at 200 yards with fixed 6x42 scope are like 8 inches. Flyer's abound! NM. Irons, sighted at 100 yd. are miserable. Doesn't matter the ammo. Radway grn. Port.,or hand loaded 165 gr. Sierra BT. Lest some of you might think it's me, I just scored 3rd in a high power off-hand rifle match with a pre 64, Win. featherweight in 30.06. Need advice as I'm sick of spending any more time or $ on this rifle. Thanks in advance for any suggestion's forum members may have.
I realize just how frustrating this situation would be. I don't think I'd let Springfield off the hook. I get another return tag and write a professional and polite letter to go back with the rifle. It's tempting to call them every name in the book but it won't help. After 35 years of retail I know the nice customers always got more and faster than the ones that cussed me first. I would let them know how disappointed you are that the rifle shoots worse now than before the repair and modifications. I would think think they would really try to make this up to you.

When I bought my rifle (used) I had some problems to be corrected right off the bat, not what I would expect from a rifle in "excellent" condition. My problems were caused by what the previous owner had done to it so I understand how you feel. Rifle shoots great after the problems were solved! Don't give up on the M1A yet, it's worth the effort.
 

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Sai

I agree HH, He should be polite, always....I would ask them to check the draw pressure and the stock ferrel relationship to the gas cylinder...looking for signs of contact during firing...Or, I would fix it myself, search accuracy forum for stock ferrel mods and groups....
 

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Before sending it back again I would go over the rifle and check if there are any obvious problems. Is the oprod guide tight? Front sight not loose? Bullet strikes on inside of flash suppressor?
 

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What kind of powder and how much are you using for the 165's?

My advice, take the scope off and work with the rifle alone to rule out any scope/mount problems.

Not implying you dont , but many people really dont know how to mount or use a scope well.

Make sure your op rod guide is not flopping around all over the place. Make sure your front band isn't rattling around too much. Make sure your bullets are not touching the splines of the flash suppressor (check the inside of the FS for copper or damage or wear). Make sure the receiver is fairly solid in the stock. Make sure your barrels crown is not damaged....

Those are the places I would start looking first...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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Thanks for the posts so far. I humped this rifle in 68, at least the M-14. Qualed Expert. Albeit, I was 18yo.
I have now what I would consider some op-rod slop. Frnt. sight is fine. My point being, this rifle shot better before I sent it back to SAI. Original range report for this rifle before re-barrel and receiver. http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=89940
 

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You might also try another stock if you've got one. I've seen amazing changes in accuracy by simply changing out stocks. Some seemed to fit exactly the same, but something affected accuracy. I've seen this with both wood and fiberglass, none bedded.
 

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Sounds like the new barrel and receiver they put on screwed your accuracy. I'd look for obvious issues first then call SA Inc. and politely request they fix it. Explain you were getting MOA accuracy before and now you have MOB accuracy (minute of barn). Make them make it right at their expense...
 

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Dont really know what to say other than send it back like NoExpert said.

However, if you want a 14 that does shoot really well, expect to put money into it and have someone who knows how to build these things right do it. That excludes Springfield. Expect to continue to put time/money into it to keep it shooting good if you shoot a lot, like at a competitive level...

M14's are finicky rifles. They take alot of work to get shooting really well, and conversely, dont take much at all to get shooting poorly. It comes down to what you are willing to put up with and what you are willing to spend.

I bought a Springfield "National Trash" once (in 2002) and the thing shot so poorly, I sold it within a few weeks. Luckily I did not take a loss. It shot worse than one of my very fine shooting Standard's bought in 96. Its hit or miss with Springfield.

It was after buying that "NT" rifle, that I realized the only way to go about these rifles is either do it myself or have one of the pros out there do it. Since then that is the only route I have taken, minus one SuperMatch I picked up in 08, and I sill added some of my own mods to it...

I am now no longer a Springfield customer, for any of their products. They don't have to skills to give me what I want at the prices that they charge...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Dont really know what to say other than send it back like NoExpert said.

However, if you want a 14 that does shoot really well, expect to put money into it and have someone who knows how to build these things right do it. That excludes Springfield.

Its hit or miss with Springfield.

It was after buying that "NT" rifle, that I realized the only way to go about these rifles is either do it myself or have one of the pros out there do it. Since then that is the only route I have taken, minus one SuperMatch I picked up in 08, and I sill added some of my own mods to it...

I am now no longer a Springfield customer, for any of their products. They don't have to skills to give me what I want at the prices that they charge...
Thanks for a no BS response jameslawson71 . Already have an RA# from SAI. Even at 60 yoa, I shoot better than what they seem to manufacture, at least at a consistent level. If no satisfaction from SAI this time around, I'll field the thought of a buy back and or sell. Next level? Maybe sign up for the LRB group buy thing or find an almost all USGI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Check list

What kind of powder and how much are you using for the 165's?
Unknown, friends reloads.

My advice, take the scope off and work with the rifle alone to rule out any scope/mount problems.
Removed the scope and fired with irons. No dice. Btw, when I originally mounted the scope and sighted it in with a fore mentioned rifle it was producing 2" groups. Haven't changed anything.

Make sure your op rod guide is not flopping around all over the place.
Does have some op-rod slop

Make sure your front band isn't rattling around too much.
Unitized. Front band is solid.

Make sure your bullets are not touching the splines of the flash suppressor (check the inside of the FS for copper or damage or wear).
No copper on FH.

Make sure the receiver is fairly solid in the stock.
It is.
Make sure your barrels crown is not damaged....
Haven't checked

Thanks
 

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You say there is some slop in the oprod. Are you referring to the oprod's movement in the receiver rail, or the guide itself that is attached to the barrel? It's normal that the oprod wiggles a bit, but the guide should be solid.
 

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Scout back from SAI- Range report
So I finally got a chance to take my Scout out to the range after getting it back from Springfield for warranty repairs.

It functioned perfectly! And I am amazed by the accuracy out of the box with the open sights! It took a few clicks on the elevation to get a good zero on the sights, but this my three shot group at 100 yards after getting them sighted in!

Not sure if this is great or not but for me this is shocking! I can't wait to scope this rifle!

Also my ARMS 18 was mounted during this range trip and I had zero extraction issues with the SAI extractor and this mount. Not even a brass track on the mount. I'm ready to start scope shopping!

Funny thing to mention, I had consistant tight groups using Hirtenburger surplus but when I switched to American Eagle 7.62 ammo my groups grew to pie plate size. Not a bad thing, but I just hope I can get more surplus!!! Federal 150g gave me good groups too, just not as tight as the Hirtenburger.

Here is a photo of my Scout if you haven't seen it in my other posts...

Jens5, the above was posted by Sirtirithon, on the Modern forum. I just wanted you to know Springfield doesn't screw up everything. Try not to get down, your rifle can be made into a good one. I had some mods done to mine that weren't warranty. I had the gunsmith go over the whole rifle for problems (none). I did have the extractor replaced, GC shimmed and touched up what was already a good trigger.
I couldn't be happier now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Scout back from SAI- Range report
So I finally got a chance to take my Scout out to the range after getting it back from Springfield for warranty repairs.

It functioned perfectly! And I am amazed by the accuracy out of the box with the open sights! It took a few clicks on the elevation to get a good zero on the sights, but this my three shot group at 100 yards after getting them sighted in!

Not sure if this is great or not but for me this is shocking! I can't wait to scope this rifle!

I had consistant tight groups using Hirtenburger surplus but when I switched to American Eagle 7.62 ammo my groups grew to pie plate size. Not a bad thing, but I just hope I can get more surplus!!! Federal 150g gave me good groups too, just not as tight as the Hirtenburger.

Jens5, the above was posted by Sirtirithon, on the Modern forum. I just wanted you to know Springfield doesn't screw up everything. Try not to get down, your rifle can be made into a good one. I had some mods done to mine that weren't warranty. I had the gunsmith go over the whole rifle for problems (none). I did have the extractor replaced, GC shimmed and touched up what was already a good trigger.
I couldn't be happier now.
Good to hear. Interesting to note the Hirtenburger ammo was what your rifle liked to eat. The main thing that frustrates me is before I sent mine into SAI for what I thought was a minor problem, it shot fine.

http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=89940

Now sent back with a new barrel & receiver, it shoots like crap, even more frustrating is I had them do the gas system mods, NM sights and the trigger job. I will say, SAI did a great trigger job.
 

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Good to hear. Interesting to note the Hirtenburger ammo was what your rifle liked to eat. The main thing that frustrates me is before I sent mine into SAI for what I thought was a minor problem, it shot fine.

http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=89940

Now sent back with a new barrel & receiver, it shoots like crap, even more frustrating is I had them do the gas system mods, NM sights and the trigger job. I will say, SAI did a great trigger job.
Jens5, you need someone smarter than me to tell you why a rifle likes some ammo better than others. If you're serious about target shooting you just have to find out what your rifle likes the best. My rifle is a truck gun for predators, Q3130 or USA3081 Winchester is good enough for me.

Whatever is wrong I'm confident Springfield wants it to be right. Springfield has built 85% of all the civilian M14's out there, all the other manufacturers combined have built 15%. They have to be doing something right.

I really understand your frustration though. I said a few choice words about my problems (you can't get me at home Federal GI2). Like I said earlier I'm happy as can be now. But remember, the M14 isn't a true target rifle. If you're expecting Olympic performance it's not going to happen no matter what brand. It's a battle rifle designed to do it's job. I think it does a hell of a job at that!
 

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I can understand jens5's frustration. You have something that works well, send it in for a quick check and some upgrade work and it comes back a POS.

It's not about asking for a match rifle's accuracy from a standard rifle, it's about getting what you had back, regardless. If I had a rifle that held 1.5" groups and sent it somewhere for work and it came back and did 6" groups I'd be pissed. Like the Old Testament Biblical God pissed.

That's why I say make SA Inc. make it right. They'll probably do the whole "our standard rifles are only guaranteed for 6 MOA" stuff but explain you were getting such and such accuracy before you sent in the rifle, you expect to get that accuracy or better after they work on it since you had some accuracy tuning done while it was there. Keep the pressure on them, if the person you're talking to won't help you ask for the next person up till you find the person that will make it right. It's a pain on your end but they need to know they can't give you back a shoddy product and expect no recourse. You don't have to get hostile, stay calm, but persistent. The people who answer the phones usually have the power to say, "It's got a lifetime warranty, send it in." and that's about it. You want to get on the phone with the people in charge, preferably the shop or production manager. Remain polite, state your case, don't talk bad about the company and they'll probably make everything right if not better.
 

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It's not about asking for a match rifle's accuracy from a standard rifle, it's about getting what you had back, regardless. If I had a rifle that held 1.5" groups and sent it somewhere for work and it came back and did 6" groups I'd be pissed. Like the Old Testament Biblical God pissed.
I don't disagree with this at all. But I've seen some folks expect the impossible and tried to warn against that.
 

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Just be polite, but firm with them, and send the rifle back.

I wouldn't own any M14 type rifle, if they were really a high maintenance type weapon. I have owned quite a few SA M1A's, all were very reliable, very accurate weapons, and did not require a lot of maintenance to keep that way. Your rifle should be the same.

SA will make it right, just hold their feet to the fire.
 

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I'd also check your front band's lower hook and see if it's mating flush with your stock ferrule.

If the band's hook is turned (and welded off axis) you may be getting a sharp corner digging into the ferrule. If you have that condition you can have widely variable shot to shot arrangements as the corner digs in a different spot. My SAInc was doing that but mine wasn't welded. Easy fix for me, I rearranged it with shims and dressed the tab with a file to remove the sharp points.

ETA- I've read more than once about SAInc. welded NM gas cylinders not being done correctly; offcenter or crooked.

Also look to see if your op rod is touching your stock somewhere.

i feel for you, I'd be pissed to. I sent my SAInc. back twice due to poorly cut chambers causing stuck empties and case ruptures. I was astonished that barrel number 2 was worse than barrel number 1. Apparently they don't teach them to clear the chips out while cutting chambers.
 
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