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ATF Forged Receiver Discussion

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Love my 7.62MM Rifles..they are awesome!

So that there's no more confusion:

The first 5 posts in this thread were originally in a different thread. As they were off-topic to that other thread, and to keep from having to outright delete them, I ported the posts to this thread. You can see the details of the other thread in my post below.

I apologize for any confusion this may have created. It is my intent to leave the topic open for discussion while keeping the other thread on-topic as well.

Only the red type in this post is mine. The rest of this post belongs to czjet. I typed this here to make sure folks were aware of how this thread got started. -Metonymy



I have built three rifles using 7.62MM receivers and all GI parts...all three are smooth as silK and shoot awesome. Great finish on all three. I just bought two more receivers. In the last thirty years I have built a few rifles using Armscorp, Fulton, and SAI receivers. I have had some that are better than others. A few I have sent back. Armscorp required the most fitting etc. I could never afford the LRBs and after the ATF incident I lost interest. Some of you may not remember that. I will stay with Chris. Shame you didn't speak to Chris first. Seems that would have been the way to go. You win some and you loose some...Lets see now...get a lawyer, sue the guy, call the BBB, call your credtit card company,....hang the bum. That sure is going to help when you talk to Chris. Man can this forum get out of hand. Who needs it...czjet
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I have built three rifles using 7.62MM receivers and all GI parts...all three are smooth as silK and shoot awesome. Great finish on all three. I just bought two more receivers. In the last thirty years I have built a few rifles using Armscorp, Fulton, and SAI receivers. I have had some that are better than others. A few I have sent back. Armscorp required the most fitting etc. I could never afford the LRBs and after the ATF incident I lost interest. Some of you may not remember that. I will stay with Chris. Shame you didn't speak to Chris first. Seems that would have been the way to go. You win some and you loose some...Lets see now...get a lawyer, sue the guy, call the BBB, call your credtit card company,....hang the bum. That sure is going to help when you talk to Chris. Man can this forum get out of hand. Who needs it...czjet
What ATF incident?

Also to be fair, according to his side of the story he seemed to get the run around when purchasing the receiver, which would lead one to believe it will be even harder to return a defective product. If his story is accurate he seems to have ample reason to vent in public to me.
 

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What ATF incident?

QUOTE]

I don't know what the incident was but apparently it was so severe that Lou is neither in jail, nor out of business. We all know the ATF is our friend; right? Just ask Elmer Ballance (sp?).

That comment was nothing more than an attempt get people to question Lou's integrity. I don't think it has any bearing on his business practices or the quality of his product which is the topic of this thread.

Let's move on to the topic at hand...
 

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The ATF incident had to do with MKS welded M14 receivers if I'm not mistaken. I think LRB was a distributor and investor for MKS forged receivers. When MKS was busted by the ATF for welding M14 receivers, LRB went about things the legal way and got the rights to make the forged receivers. I don't see how LRB is at any fault other than doing business with an idiot. LRB got burned in the deal as well, they've at least managed to make some good of the situation.
 

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The only ATF incident involving LRB was that LRB was one of MKS's bigger swindle victims.

LRB took a real beating on the money they invested in developing a legal forged receiver with MKS.

MKS was working with JV Precision at the time that they were shut down by ATF.

No one from LRB was ever arrested, prosecuted or otherwise implicated in any criminality in the MKS fiasco. They were regarded as victims of MKS.

In order to salvage some shred of their original investment they (LRB) mortgaged themselves to the hilt to keep JV Precision working on the receiver development.

MKS forfeited any and all claims to the receivers

Yes some of us are old enough and have been around long enough to know what the story is...

and sloppy inferences tarring LRB with the ATF because of MKS's nonsense is well I'll be nice....its disingenuous
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
LRB Rifles were confiscated by the ATF back then. That is a fact.

The confiscated receivers were not rewelds by the way...they were the first forged receivers. There was no intention on my part to claim that LRB had done something wrong. The ATF is the ones that were over kill when the tracked every one down, ATF used LRB records etc. and took their rifles claiming that they could be converted to full auto. Plenty of good folks lost their rifles. I said I lost interest in them then. Never said that LRB was guilty of anything. YOU folks did, as always on this forum...looking to make an issue. LRBs are over priced. My only opinion and no one elses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I stand correct MKS not LRB ..

MKS (or LRB) call it what you want...They were targets....the ATF had them in their sights. I could not see taking a risk and have them knocking at my door, loosing a rilfe and money...dealing with the ATF is rough. So I backed off then and glad I did. It did get really ugly back then. Scared the hell out of a lot of people. Pissed of a lot of people that had money for lawyers etc. I just did not want any part of that. LRB does make excellent receivers...no doubt. They are an honest company and have good service. Just to expensive for my blue coller salary. No apology here thou for what I said.
 

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The only ATF incident involving LRB was that LRB was one of MKS's bigger swindle victims.

LRB took a real beating on the money they invested in developing a legal forged receiver with MKS.

MKS was working with JV Precision at the time that they were shut down by ATF.

No one from LRB was ever arrested, prosecuted or otherwise implicated in any criminality in the MKS fiasco. They were regarded as victims of MKS.

In order to salvage some shred of their original investment they (LRB) mortgaged themselves to the hilt to keep JV Precision working on the receiver development.

MKS forfeited any and all claims to the receivers

Yes some of us are old enough and have been around long enough to know what the story is...

and sloppy inferences tarring LRB with the ATF because of MKS's nonsense is well I'll be nice....its disingenuous
Thanks. I had never heard of this incident, it is good to know if for nothing else than M14 trivia.
 

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I might add, as far as I know being one that had a MKS Receiver taken by the ATF. The only receivers confisicated by the ATF were rewelded original M14 recievers that were re-imported back into the states from IDF. The 300 to 400 cut receivers were originally approved by ATF to be rewelded. Where MKS went wrong is they were not the original folks that received the approval letter from ATF to put them back together.
MKS purchased the rewelded receivers from that person and assumed that since the ATF director was still in-charge that they could use the original approval letter to put the receivers together! WRONG per ATF. If MKS would have re-submitted for their own approval a new letter to reweld the receivers following A, B, C and D they might still be around rather then taking up time at club men. LRB was working with MKS to manufacturer a forged new receiver since the MKS only had a limited number of reweld receivers to sell. When MKS got into hot water with ATF they needed cash to fight in court. LRB bought out MKS's interest in the new receivers which were not at issue with the ATF. Shortly there after LRB arrived on the scen with the new LRB Receivers!
 

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All sorts of fail in this thread, starting with the title.

We are happy you love your 7.62mm rifle.

Every manufactures have had issues, and most have been addressed here. Is it necessary to create a purposeless thread backing 7.62 up instead of discussing about. Perhaps the title of this thread "ATF Forged Receiver..." should be changed as it's misleading to the material that is being thrown around here.

What you think is over priced may be worth it to some for legitimate reasons.

Get over it your whining.
 

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I could never afford the LRBs and after the ATF incident I lost interest.
Interesting - you can read this another way as well. Whose ATF incident?

If LRB, the LRB deal has been pretty well vetted - they were not suspect in anything and were one of the victims. To put out a thread with a title like this is really out of bounds.
 

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ATF and MKS

The ATF also confiscated most of the original MKS forged receivers. This included many that were sold to customers who had rifles built on them. I know I had to disassemble several that I had built for my customers so the ATF could confiscate the receivers and the customers could keep their parts. A few unfinished receivers were not taken by ATF and LRB was able to finish them up for sale. ATF approved the sales after LRB submitted a receiver for ATF's inspection. Any LRB receivers below serial number 1200 were included in this bunch. LRB also replaced many of the confiscated MKS forged receivers at their own expense. LRB really looks out for their cusomers interests.
 

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Ted,

Thanks for that up-date. I did not realize that MKS had produced for sale new receivers at the time that ATF came a knocking at their door.
I knew they were under development, had several test models and had posted pictures of them for all to see, since many nay sayers said they could not forge new receivers because of the cost of production in todays world.
I disassembled mine, receiver went to ATF, GI parts-all H&R went on one of the new Fulton Armory receivers.
 

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I laughed so hard I almost fell off my couch. This crap is good. People take it from someone who has discussed this with Lou, they came out on top and were basically getting the shaft. Another thing that makes me laugh is everytime someone mentions the cost of an LRB receiver. Well I'll say this. How many members here come on the forum complaining that there LRB receiver is screwed up? I'll tell you who! The ones that don't own one and feel the need to point out some remote spec that's off by less than a hair. Now let's see how many come on the forum and complain about this or that about 7.62 receivers on a weekly basis? The price difference to me is money in the bank. I promised myself I was not going to get into this. I find it so comical that people have to toss darts at the best manufacturer of the rifle we all love. I love them so much I bought six. Guess what? I'll never buy anything else. It's called loyalty nothing else. When you find something that works you stick with it. So keep tossing your darts people and I'll keep laughing everytime I go to the range and shoot my flawless LRB rifles. Lull the trigger and they go bang bang bang over and over and over again.
 

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Warren I would also offer that part of the "high costs" for the M14SA

directly or indirectly went into the development expense

for their M25 receiver
 

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The title of this thread, in my opinion (not that it holds much weight..) is a confusing mask for what seems to be an LRB bashing thread..

The trouble for me is that the concerns by the OP don't seem to be legit concerns. They were victims in the ATF fiasco, and they charge us for their R&D for their current products. Not every company can afford to eat the R&D, and as they become plentiful in the market, the price should reflect that - if the current ~$200 difference between a forged 7.62 and a forged LRB is a deal breaker for someone..

I'm not weighing in to take sides - in my humble opinion, someone who bellies up to the table, and fronts the money to provide us with parts is OK in my book. Keeps us from having to fight each other for increasingly hard to find GI parts and matching receiver halves on the auction sites..

I'm also of the opinion that every MFG will make a lemon from time to time. It happens. How the MFG handles the issue is where the rubber meets the road for me. So far, I haven't heard of LRB, 7.62mm, or even SAI, not taking care of someone when their part wasn't good to go.

I own a LRB (and a Fed Ord, but I digress..). I'll be honest - I cringed when I saw the price, but it was also what I wanted. So I saved my money and bought one. I haven't looked back, and sure as hell do not have buyer's remorse over it. I'm an equal opportunity consumer, so my next one (because these things are like Pringles, you can't just stop at one, or two even) will be a 7.62mm.. I would like to end up with one from each of the current MFG's in time, but for now I will have to call it good with a LRB and a 7.62mm..
 
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