M14 Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
NOTHING BEATS marksmanship training, use in actual combat, of regular peep sights. BATTERIES AND SOFTWARE DO DIE. You need to be able to use your eyes and peep sights, it's basic and it works.
Sure, but this system has a b/u etched reticle as well.

There seems to be a lot of assumptions about this system, namely that purchasing it means that marksmanship training will either cease or no longer be prioritized. This seems a bit like claiming that modern stability systems/autopilot lead to pilots being unable to fly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Frighteningly- that's exactly what is happening. I have a friend who is a pilot and pilot trainer with JetBlue, and one of his main functions is conducting recently-required yearly "basic flying" requalification for pilots. He explained to me that due to cockpit automation pilots have become passengers whose job it is to keep an eye on the computers that are actually flying the planes.

He described how JetBlue has been forced to make changes relating specifically to the problem of "passenger pilots" and began requiring "basic flying" yearly requals and removing free Wi-Fi in the cockpit. He said that pilots basically go over checklists, communicate with tower/groundcrew/gate/passengers, monitor flight computers, and keep their hands "close" to the controls during takeoff/landing- otherwise they spend their time on their laptops watching movies/porn, playing games, and surfing the net. It became such an issue that JetBlue even took away their free internet in the cockpit.

He flies Internationally, and says he used to find it humorous thinking about how if only all the folks "back there" had any clue about what what was actually going on "up here" in the cockpit- they'd never want to fly again... until he started to realize that the pilots were literally forgetting how to physically fly the aircraft.

After several loss-of-life incidents involving automated flight controls and widespread random basic competency pilot test failures, JetBlue began requiring yearly pilot "flight retraining" on the simulator. And that's what my friend does for them when he's not watching movies in the cockpit of a Caribbean-bound JetBlue Airbus.

It's no joke, and it's damn scary.
When I am training my guys we use the systems to lighten workload to help with other tasks they need. My world is a bit different from commercial though, this may very well be a problem for them but it sounds like a cultural one and prioritization
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Im seeing a lot of echoes of when the USMC shifted from irons to ACOGs and a lot of old timers grumbling about what it was going to do to the future of marksmanship. If the attitude assumed at the range is that this is a replacement for fundamentals, well obviously that is a problem but as long as the system is used to enhance the skills they should be getting trained on it sounds like a good deal.

Imagine if a tanker bemoaned the adoption of a modern fire control system.

On the flip side, Rob has a point about electronic signature management. Having your unit emit like a christmas tree is not a survivable posture when in the peer/near peer threat picture
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
And therein lies the true evil of autonomous integrated digital systems... I can't believe anyone would voluntarily get on a plane after finding out that hundreds of people have been killed by automated flight control systems that actively overrode the human pilots' inputs and flew perfectly operating aircraft straight into the ground.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE- IT. IS. MURDER. People MUST be held accountable.
The single greatest source of mishaps in aviation is pilot error, with about an 80/20 breakdown between human error and aircraft failure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Sounds like you have seen the video from an airshow where a new (at the time) Airbus, with a factory test pilot at the controls, went into auto landing mode and set down in the trees at the end of the runway. He was unable to override it.

At least that's the way I heard it.

A family friend that was an experienced commercial pilot (DC-9s and MD-80s mostly) always called it a "Scarebus".
I believe that this is referring to Air France Flight 296. From the investigations launched there seems to either have been pilot error (their chart did not have the trees depicted that they hit) or the Fly By Wire setting prevented the additional power asked for by the pilot by increased throttle as it believed it was in the landing environment.

I have unfortunately lost a few friends in this business, and every single one was due to human factors whether that be spatial disorientation or poor decision making. I think there is a very reasonable wariness of automation because of the lack of human input, but aviation technology has progressed to the point where the risks that automation introduce are greatly outweighed by benefits when it comes to safety.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Well, the efficiencies in aero dynamics that you gain and the safety margins that are achievable put a lot of positives in the automation category.

One of the key issues with the Max was that Boeing failed to disclose how they had updated their AoA system and so the crews were not correctly trained on it. Therein is the key part of all the whole thread - pure automation will never replace high quality training, but it sure can help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Lot of truth there. One of the interesting bits about the thought process behind needing a software fix for an apparent aircraft design flaw is that is exactly how we got fly by wire in the first place - we wanted to squeeze more maneuverability out of our fighters but that required them to be inherently unstable platforms. Humans couldn't keep up with that so we needed software in the loop to translate pilot input into aircraft performance.

Obviously an airliner isn't the same nor does it have the same requirements.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top