M14 Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 82 Posts

·
Resident Rascal
Joined
·
13,508 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We just had a thread locked by the moderators that had turned into a meaningless denigration of Springfield. I wonder how many of you ever thought how this looks to the guy shopping for a rifle or just coming to the forum after buying his first M14.

I saw a forum member that bought a Springfield and posted about a problem. The next thing I see is numerous derogatory comments with the end result that he's trying to buy another brand of rifle. Will he even end up with an M14?

When I first came here I was trying to learn more about the M14 before I purchased one. I read the pros and cons about Springfield and other brands for several months. There's no question LRB puts out a good product but even if I could afford one I wouldn't spend that much on a rifle for my use. One forum member described a Springfield as a "wash and wear" rifle. That's exactly what I wanted. I ended up buying a used Bush model that I had to correct problems the previous owner had caused. I could readily see why he thought he had a bad rifle. The rifle shoots fine now. I'm as happy as I can be.

But what about the fellow coming here that doesn't take the time that I did for research? After reading how bad a Springfield is he decides to go back to an AR because he can't buy an LRB. Do we really want to tell people if you can't spend $3,000 for a rifle you don't need an M14? It's in our best interest to have another 100,000 people shooting M14's.

About 25,000 people have joined the forum. Why do we only have 1,000 to 1,200 active members? How many decided they needed to be somewhere else after reading so many negative posts? Have you ever noticed how many guys, with less than 50 posts, are selling their rifle in the PX. Why?

I spent some time on an Airstream forum learning about them. I soon discovered how snobbish the majority of the people were. They have campgrounds for only Airstreams, this of course keeps the riff raff away.They refer to other brands of RV's as SOB's (some other brand). In their mind an Airstream is the only RV. If you can't buy one then find a motel room. It didn't take long for me to decide I didn't fit in with this crowd. How many potential M14 owners have we chased away for the same reason?

Stop and think about how your post will sound to a FNG. When a gunsmith tells a new Springfield owner it's good he got a lifetime warranty, because he's going to need it. Another post says Springfield will be out of business. Another post calls Springfield worthless trash and worst of all another manufacturer congratulates him for the post. What good has any of this done?

I think all of us need to support the M14 platform. I've sold merchandise for years. I learned that knocking the other guy's product just makes me look bad. Concentrate on telling the potential customer the benefits of your product. We can readily tell a FNG the good points of all the different brands. If a guy has a problem let's try to help him. Telling him he just bought junk doesn't help anything.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone but I think it's pastime to support the rifle that all of us enjoy. Let's see how many people we can convert to the M14 next year instead of sending them away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,997 Posts
Very Well thought out to a "T" I agree 100% with you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,491 Posts
I too am tired of all the Springfield bashing. I have one and it is a fine rifle. High Hat, you said it betterthan I could.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,869 Posts
Anybody who thinks my Springfield M1A is a "wash and wear" rifle is more than welcome to go downrange and test their theory by trying to get back uprange to me ... GI2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,519 Posts
Eloquently put, High Hat. I have only been around this site for a few months and I have found most of the members to be supportive and positive about anyone joining the fold. The only negative that I find distasteful is the rush to trash the Springfield name. We seem to have lost sight that most of us would not be shooting this platform if it was not for this company

Granted, they are having their problems and some people have a right to be concerned. It seems that an attitude that conveys a desire for the company to succeed and put out the quality of product we have all come to expect (I own a 010*** serial no. built in 8/79) would not only support the improvement of their product, but, also, serve to propagate the spread of our sport.

Springfield is obviously aware of the issues with their QC, after all they are the ones paying the staff to handle the problems and repair the product. It is inane to believe they want to continue with this situation as it obviously cuts into the bottom line $ and they are in this to make money.

I believe in their product enough that I will be buying rifles from them for my two boys in the next year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
510 Posts
I love my Springfield M1a and its not for sale....
Ever...

I never thought I could afford a M1a but it worked out and I'm very happy with it.
I learn a little bit every time I log on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
279 Posts
I agree with your post.. you make a good point.. just like, the NRA; people harp on them, for not being a perfect pro gun organization, or for sending them junk mail.. but with out them we'd have lost our gun rights long ago.. they need and deserve our support.... LRB, 762, Fulton, Armscorp and the rest should pay tribute to SAI.. they are the founding fathers of the M1A(M14)..
We seem to have lost sight that most of us would not be shooting this platform if it was not for this company
well said..
BUT... I am sad that SAI has lost some footing lately.. I own a M1A it's A GREAT gun.. runs Flawless and shoots like a bolt gun..but I'm not sure I'd send it back to them for work... B2B
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,021 Posts
Is it just me or does this thread look familiar? Well put High Hat, your satisfied with your SAI, congrats. Your SAI works fine and I'm sure you have plenty of company here on the forum. I also have an SAI and I love it, now! Now that I have corrected all the problems by rebuilding it. I also have a lot of company on this forum.

Your side, my side, their side. Do you honestly think that any of us could put SAI out of business, stop their profits, stop new shooters from buying SAI's. They are the only game in town for what his been called the 'wash and wear' M1A's.

SAI makes their own future and profits based on the product that they turn out, it's totally in their control. Young people can't wait to shoot, they can't wait to get their hands on a weapon and put rounds down range. The M14/M1A stands on it's classic military design, it's honorable service in the Vietnam war (I mean conflict), and the fact that it's a semi auto and can be rapid fired (always a hit with the young ones).

All the popular gun stores in all the big cities are now full of them. I've never seen so many M1A's in the Los Angeles area as there are now. SAI appears to be doing fine here.

I believe that laying the SAI QC problem and the future of our platform at the door of the folks on this forum is questionable at best. Shooters that have a problem with SAI or any other brand should be allowed to express their opinion here without feeling guilty that they are ruining the platform because their rifles don't work properly.

High Hat, I enjoyed your post very much but we just have a different view on this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
690 Posts
Thank you for a very thoughtful and absolutely correct post. It reminds me of what the Sergeant Major in Boot Camp told us: Never foul your own nest.
Doc

MC1EXPRT1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Which of these will put a sour taste in someone's mouth faster? Hearing that of the several manufacturer's that make a similar product one has had a spate of problems? Or buying an expensive new product that has problems from the get go?

If the idea is to sell rifles, then when product issues are encountered we should all stay mum and walk around on egg shells. If the idea is to promote the community, then building trust in the membership is far more advantageous than promoting a specific vendor.

That's not to say I believe it's OK to bash a company just for the sake of bashing them. It's not. But accurately reporting both good and bad experiences with a product is a service to the community.

A vendor's reputation will be what it will be and it doesn't help anyone, especially inexperienced, prospective new owners, to whitewash product issues that arise. Helping new and potential enthusiasts have a good experience is far more valuable for growing this community than shielding any single vendor from their mistakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,220 Posts
They say it is pointless to argue politics or religion. Moderators here put an end to the "cast vs forged issue". It looks like to own a Springfield or not falls into the same category.
High Hat you should have gotten that Airstream. You can park it anywhere you want. I have camped next to some of those things in a pup tent and the people in em treated me like family.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Demonstrating a willingness to accept declining QC does not "support the companies efforts to fix the problem." Demonstrating a willingness to spend your money elsewhere WILL provide incentive for the company to fix their problems, as does a willingness to send your defects back for THEM to fix rather than shrugging your shoulders and accepting that the correct fix is to shell out more money for USGI components.

I am a quality engineer for a very large profit-driven company. I know of what I speak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
335 Posts
Demonstrating a willingness to accept declining QC does not "support the companies efforts to fix the problem." Demonstrating a willingness to spend your money elsewhere WILL provide incentive for the company to fix their problems, as does a willingness to send your defects back for THEM to fix rather than shrugging your shoulders and accepting that the correct fix is to shell out more money for USGI components.

I am a quality engineer for a very large profit-driven company. I know of what I speak.
Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,046 Posts
I think Springfield Inc. is turning guys off of the platform themselfs. They almost did it to me 10 years ago with my M1A that was a $1500 turd. Yes, they did fix it with a new rifle, but I would be mad as hell when I would go an try and have a good day at the range with my high dollar rifle and it would jam and shoot shotgun patterns. I would shoot it and get mad and put it up for 6-9 months and be discused with that rifle. I had the rifle 5 years before I sent it back for repair. I herd how great the M14 is and mine was junk. I have had this problem with a Colt 1911 pistol too. I found out that knowing how something is suppose to be built and what you get are to different things. I now have a very cool and super sweet M1A and Colt 1911 but it was not that way out of the box. For the money you have to put out, people expect there guns to work.

Just my Springfield and Colt experience no flame to anyone or company.
I also have a LRB and I am working on getting a Ed Brown.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
2,230 Posts
Wow . . .

Some of us can't even stop pushing prospective buyers away in a thread about pushing prospective buyers away. The dancing grenade was never more appropriate: dance2
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,591 Posts
here we go again . .

dance2

That said . . I have two SAIs, a 2008 NM and a 2004 Bush. Each have 3000+ rounds downrange, flawlessly. They shoot better than me.

A friend has a high $$$ custom built M1A (Very well regarded name) that my crappy chicom SKS can outshoot using crappy corrosive milsurp. Then he ALSO has a Fulton that is a frikkin' tack driver. But then my NM is a tack driver when HE shoots it!

Well said High Hat. I agree 100%.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,384 Posts
Good points HH, for the most part I tend to agree. Being a fan of the M14 platform, I can understand that evolution of the market. When SAI started out making the M1As, they had a ready supply of surplus GI parts at reasonable prices. They did a great job of making the M14 platform available to us commoners. Now, the supply of GI parts is drying up and I can imagine that new manufacture of those parts doesn't come cheaply. With all it takes to assemble an M14/M1A correctly, I'm sure SAI struggles to keep their costs low enough to maintain a price lower than that of, say, LRB. It sounds like that they fall off that edge some percentage of the time.

If it wasn't for SAI, there wouldn't be as many M14 style rifle owners as there are and this site would be a lonely place. For many of us, laying out $1,700 for a rifle is hard enough to choke down but could you imagine how it would be if our only option was $3,000 rifles? For this, SAI is owed some credit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
I own 2 SA M1A thirty years now with buckets full of brass shot thru the rifles, 0 problems ever. The problems experienced by others is not unusual cønsidering mass of consumers purchasing the rifle. Numbers of the rifles sold makes SA M1A no. 1. It must be hard to keep up with the demand.
 

·
Automatic Rifleman
Joined
·
585 Posts
My thinking is that companies have Lifetime Warranties for one of two reasons... either their product is that good that few will ever be returned for repair OR their product suspect enough that the only way to move it is to offer lifetime repair for faults.
Personally, I'd rather pay the extra to always have my rifle ready and waiting for me than to deal with shipping and down time.
As with anything, you usually get what you pay for. An SAi does cost significantly more than other type rifles, BUT, its cost, monetarily, is on the lower side of M14 type rifles.
To me, you pay either way... with dollars or hassle. Those things have different value to different people.
I feel there is also a big difference between 'bashing' and 'critiquing'.
 
1 - 20 of 82 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top