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Held a CMP match at our club today 700 members belong to this club. Out of 700 members 2 showed up for match and two non members. We had shut down the 100 yard range for reduced course match . People showed up , mainly because they didn't look at the schedule and wanted to plink on the 100 yard range. A couple of them had AR's and one M1 Garand. Told them they could join the match and zero there rifles and see how they did. Oh no it's too far to shoot?
We finish the match by 1100 as we started at 0900 and people were waiting to use the range saying we need the benches can't shoot off the ground. We put the benches back and they start wasting lead and powder. They can't hit anything. I stayed back to practice and watched a kid shoot an AR at clay pigeons at 100 yards and hit one out of 30 rounds. He looks at me and goes neat huh?. I am in sitting position and I ask you mind if I try he goes sure. So I break 9 out of 10 plates with 10 rounds with my M1 in sitting position.
Is everyone else seeing this too the horrible marksmanship and no one wanting to get away from these benches or compete anymore?GI3
 

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Couldn't hit a bear in the a$$ with a bass fiddle

Many of the public ranges only allow shooting off the bench, so to many that's all they know. As far as the horrible marksmanship that seems to be prevalent , I've seen it many times too. I can't understand how they do it off a bench , except by closing their eyes and yanking the trigger. I'm not what I consider an ace rifle shot by any means, but I always thought you've got to seriously try to shoot that bad . What's worse is they're content with their performance & think they're really shooting good.
 
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Not many people have the luxury of going out to the farm to plink around anymore. It's either an outdoor range that is very regulated or an indoor range where it's 20 yards max. I'm lucky because I can go to national forest, find some spot that is 100-200 yards out and plink away...or I can drive an hour or so on special days and shoot 600 or 1000 yards with the benchrest crowd.

Chicago not many people can do that, in fact gun ownership there is still a pain for regular folks. Give it time you will get more people there who aren't of the OFG variety.
 

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When I was in basic training at the end of the first day on the range the CO asked that all that had their weapons zeroed to raise their hand. Much to my surprise I was then only one with a hand up. We had 194 people that day that were trying to zero their weapons. Totally unbelievable that many people didn't know how to hit a target accurately.


USANG1
 

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I wonder the same thing. I only just recently started shooting in NRA and CMP high-power matches and while the the matches at my clubs probably draw 25 shooters on average, they tend to be the same folks over and over and it's rare to see a new face.

High Power shooting is expensive so that might have something to do with, but I think the younger shooting crowd is gravitating more towards the 3 gun stuff and other tacticool sort of events. Those seem to be pretty popular at my club.

Another thing is the constant liberal slant of school systems, media, etc telling folks that guns are bad and only the government should have them. After 40 years of this constant haranguing, 1/3rd to 1/2 of the population views guns in general with contempt.

50 years ago, in certain places, kids used to be able to take their rifles to school to compete in various shooting activities or hunt on the way home, now those same kids would be put on psychotropic drug and labeled dangerous to society. Hell, walk through the toy stores nowadays and the only sorts of toy guns you will find are the ones that are funky, multi colored, shoots water or foam darts, types of toy guns. Nothing even remotely close to resembling a cowboy rifle or pistol, AR-15, etc. This is no accident.
 

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Currently high power can't compete with the run and gun sport, the younger folks gravitate to that action shooting. Everyone wants to be a door kicker. One of my pet complaints, the CMP and NRA old heads are not willing to re-invent the game. For example the M4 is not even considered a service rifle legal or A4 with optics is not considered a service rifle legal though the reality there are more optics equipped M16 variants out there deployed with our troops that iron sighted ones.

Another beef I have with the governing bodies, though new M1As only come with short and limited capacity magasines, they only consider the 20 round magasines as service rifle legal. If you just purchased a new M1a and you want to shoot high power in the service rifle category, you must purchase 20 rounder to a magasine with limited capacity as long as the external dimensions are the same as the 20 rounders.

At our club, if you show up with safe rifle and safe ammo, we will let you shoot and make a class just for you. If you want to shoot your 30-30 lever gun, have at it and have fun, maybe next time you will bring a more competitive piece.
 

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At a buck for each pull of the trigger and cost of gas in relation to wage of the individual it's hard to get people to show. You have to do some real fun stuff in order for them to come out. IMHO
 

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I used to shoot high power and CMP matches at our club, but now, due to my age and medical conditions, I cannot shoot prone, sitting, or kneeling. I also have a very hard time shooting from the standing position, as I wobble like a Weeble, and have a difficult time keeping my balance. I even have a difficult time shooting trap, but I still do it, just to be shooting.

I like to shoot, so therefore, I shoot from the bench, so I can at least enjoy the sport.
 

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Not many people have the luxury of going out to the farm to plink around anymore. It's either an outdoor range that is very regulated or an indoor range where it's 20 yards max. I'm lucky because I can go to national forest, find some spot that is 100-200 yards out and plink away...or I can drive an hour or so on special days and shoot 600 or 1000 yards with the benchrest crowd.

Chicago not many people can do that, in fact gun ownership there is still a pain for regular folks. Give it time you will get more people there who aren't of the OFG variety.
Believe if or not, here in the Dallas TX metroplex, there's a popular range that won't let you shoot without at least a 4x optic. This is still TX for crying out loud.
 

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I'm guilty to say I pretty much just shoot off bench. I'd really like to get into the competitions and learning how to really shoot. Growing up I only shot 22s while running around in the woods and shotguns at birds. Don't really know anyone in the DFW area to tag along with, but sure would like to find some folks.
 

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ncsapala.com

Guys,this is my home range and if you go to their website you will see why. Everything from Cowboy Action to Antique Military. Its run by shooters for shooters.
 

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Believe if or not, here in the Dallas TX metroplex, there's a popular range that won't let you shoot without at least a 4x optic. This is still TX for crying out loud.
What's the reasoning for requiring an optic?
 

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Currently high power can't compete with the run and gun sport, the younger folks gravitate to that action shooting. Everyone wants to be a door kicker. One of my pet complaints, the CMP and NRA old heads are not willing to re-invent the game. For example the M4 is not even considered a service rifle legal or A4 with optics is not considered a service rifle legal though the reality there are more optics equipped M16 variants out there deployed with our troops that iron sighted ones.

Another beef I have with the governing bodies, though new M1As only come with short and limited capacity magasines, they only consider the 20 round magasines as service rifle legal. If you just purchased a new M1a and you want to shoot high power in the service rifle category, you must purchase 20 rounder to a magasine with limited capacity as long as the external dimensions are the same as the 20 rounders.

At our club, if you show up with safe rifle and safe ammo, we will let you shoot and make a class just for you. If you want to shoot your 30-30 lever gun, have at it and have fun, maybe next time you will bring a more competitive piece.
+1 to all of that and, of course, today's cost of ammo and components and you have the whole story. Ammo cost is eating into the Cowboy Action games, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Not many people have the luxury of going out to the farm to plink around anymore. It's either an outdoor range that is very regulated or an indoor range where it's 20 yards max. I'm lucky because I can go to national forest, find some spot that is 100-200 yards out and plink away...or I can drive an hour or so on special days and shoot 600 or 1000 yards with the benchrest crowd.

Chicago not many people can do that, in fact gun ownership there is still a pain for regular folks. Give it time you will get more people there who aren't of the OFG variety.
Yeah but this range is like 90 miles west of Chicago and so are most of the members. I really should change my avatar to NW IL that's where I am from some po dunk town no one has heard of.
 

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Well I sure hope they aren't dying, because Im just now looking into them.

I'm a little different from most of the guys my age though. I've grown to be fully allergic to the "tacticool" craze. You should have seen the look on my buddies face, as he was showing me a couple of his recently built $1000 AR type rifles. He was utterly confused when I asked him why he chose a collapsible stock. Because it looks cool....he couldn't come up with a better reason.

When I was a little younger I was drawn to the tacticool. Had to have all the cool "military style" stuff. Had plans to build a few AKMs, a couple CETMEs and other stuff like that. Thank god that wore off. I sold both the CETME kits to fund a reloading setup for my newly acquired M1A. Just traded one PRISTINE Romy G parts kid for some cash and a bunch of .30cal bullets. Im shifting my focus in a major fashion. I wanna SHOOT, not look cool while wasting half my income blasting down range.

Im a little different in that I've always kind of preferred iron sights too. Never been a fan of optics. Of course I spent too much time collecting and not enough shooting these last few years.... so Im having to relearn what I once knew.

The club I just joined holds regular reduced range NRA Highpower matches. Im gonna try to get out there next weekend to see what its all about. Wife is trying to drag me to a kids birthday party....but I might escape! Im hoping the challenge presented by competition will both be fun, and make me a better rifleman.

While the 3gun style certainly seems to be all the rage lately, I don't see how guys can afford it. With the price of ammunition, 3 guns to feed, and the sheer quantity of rounds fired both in practice and competition..... Something like Highpower or a CMP match seems MUCH more affordable.
 

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I'm guilty to say I pretty much just shoot off bench. I'd really like to get into the competitions and learning how to really shoot. Growing up I only shot 22s while running around in the woods and shotguns at birds. Don't really know anyone in the DFW area to tag along with, but sure would like to find some folks.
Contact forum member Neiltus, he is from the DFW area. He was just down in Austin today and shot with us using his 14.
 

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More than a couple things here, IMHO.

Can't find a place in many areas due to sprawl, lack of open space, etc. Some clubs are not too friendly to new folks or something different than what is popular at the time. Example, a shotgun club cares only about that aspect.

Lack of interest/understanding. There's other things easier to do in a shorter time span without getting up early, driving x miles and spending the day or part thereof outside, it might be too hot/cold/wet/etc.

Costs a lot for a newbie without someone showing them the ropes. Laws have been enacted to make ownership difficult and costly to attain. Popular rifles are expensive, ammo also.

For those who already own them they purchased the Ultimate M14/15/whatever, paid big$$$ and owning it is enough.

When I first started HP it was at a club with 100 yards, used an HK91 with Port ball ammo. What a PITA in prone SF! After some practice I almost shot SS with it though, had fun and went to something better later.

If someone has an interest take them to a half day shoot, like a 50 round NMC at 1-200 yards, let them watch. Or they can get the fundamentals at an Appleseed. Then when they see what it's about they can try it the next time, having practiced some positions first. JMHO.
 

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I've read this discussion played out a couple times on the US National Match HP forum. These are the guys that shoot and practice regularly, attend major national events and of course, Camp Perry every year. Some of the best shooters in the nation, many of which are distinguished.

It came down to many factors (to name only a few):

Financial
Political
Geographical
Enthusiasm
Recruitment

What came out of that RCA was the challenge (or task) of recruiting. New people need to be attracted to the sport, but its takes existing competitors to do that. I personally think it is a multi-faceted problem, one almost too deep to discuss in a short forum post.

I'm in my mid-30's. Having a stable job helps, but I don't think HP has ever been a cheap hobby...though most hobbies aren't. To get better, it requires steady attention and practice. It is a depreciable skill at best.

So far, I've been unwilling or unable to worship at the alter of HP and put in regular practice dry firing and hitting the range during the week. Consequently, I'll still shoot a Sunday or two, but will be discouraged because I will plateau. A curious note, I believe CMP competition is up and NRA is down. Follow the path of least resistance.

Belly shooting (F-Class) is really booming here. Lead sled guns, and very wide interpretation of the rifle you shoot, coupled with minimal physical effort. I don't see the fun in it. But then, isn't that what people say about XTC?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I know ISRA every year does recruiting for JR HP team, but those numbers are shrinking too. All you have to do is look at teams through the years and they get smaller and smaller. I know every Jr we get shooting we encourage. Loan equipment to them, heck sometimes give them stuff to keep them shooting.
I don't know the answer to this even guys who shot in military, especially Army don't want to shoot any distance, like over 50 yards. When son was in his unit had no rifle team, nor did division, nothing. I know they were deploying every 18 months or so but a rifle team can act as instructors for the rest of the unit. Getting them to be able to shoot farther more accurately.
All I can say is if numbers don't go up at my club ,I just need 6 guys to break even with CMP match fees and stuff, I am going to throw in the towel.
 
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