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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good morning everyone. I was looking at purchasing the Archangel stock. I tried buying one online. I live in the Peoples Republic of New York. At the end of my checkout it said it was not allowed to ship to New York. Can anybody give me more specifics on this please?
 

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Could be because of the length/position of the stock grip. In Commiefornia and NY they consider it no different than a pistol grip... which is an "EVIL" assault rifle feature.
 

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Good morning everyone. I was looking at purchasing the Archangel stock. I tried buying one online. I live in the Peoples Republic of New York. At the end of my checkout it said it was not allowed to ship to New York. Can anybody give me more specifics on this please?
The short answer is that New York and several other states are geographically located on "non freedom" land. These "non freedom" zones have high crime rates and strictly regulated freedom. Somehow this makes law abiding citizens feel safer. That plastic Archangel stock is evil and very dangerous. Too dangerous for you to own. Even the name "Archangel" sounds scary.

It's kind of funny that I can order twenty round magazines for my M1A from the company that makes them for Springfield Armory (CMI) located in NY and have them shipped to Colorado (a freedom zone), but New Yorkers can't buy them. Wierd.
 

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Try another vendor. Not sure how the Archangel alone constitutes a violation of this:

""Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a bayonet mount;

(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor;

(v) a grenade launcher; or"
 

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Does NY have a definition of what a pistol grip is? CA has a definition. If the web of the hand, between the thumb and forefinger, are positioned above the upper portion of the trigger, then it is not considered a pistol grip.
Having held one at a recent gunshow here in Bakersfield, I find that the web of my hand is much higher than the upper portion of the trigger. But then, I am not a small guy at 6'2" and 285#. Size 3X hands.


"PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION
OF THE WEAPON" MEANS A GRIP THAT ALLOWS FOR A PISTOL STYLE GRASP IN
WHICH THE WEB OF THE TRIGGER HAND BETWEEN THE THUMB AND INDEX FINGER
CAN BE PLACED BELOW THE TOP OF THE EXPOSED PORTION OF THE TRIGGER WHILE
FIRING.
 

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Sailor, you're missing the point, it's not how YOU can contort to hold YOUR gigantic hand, it is: is the stock designed to meet the definition of a pistol grip. It is. The average person can get the web of their hand below the top of the trigger, which is impossible on a "regular" rifle stock or JAE.


It also has an extending LOP, which is a no-no in some states.

Does NY have a definition of what a pistol grip is? CA has a definition. If the web of the hand, between the thumb and forefinger, are positioned above the upper portion of the trigger, then it is not considered a pistol grip.
Having held one at a recent gunshow here in Bakersfield, I find that the web of my hand is much higher than the upper portion of the trigger. But then, I am not a small guy at 6'2" and 285#. Size 3X hands.


"PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION
OF THE WEAPON" MEANS A GRIP THAT ALLOWS FOR A PISTOL STYLE GRASP IN
WHICH THE WEB OF THE TRIGGER HAND BETWEEN THE THUMB AND INDEX FINGER
CAN BE PLACED BELOW THE TOP OF THE EXPOSED PORTION OF THE TRIGGER WHILE
FIRING.
 

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Here is a LEGAL stock:



The promag grip goes beneath this line, so no matter how 3X your hands are, it is not legal for California, and they themselves acknowledge this.

And Jesus my lord I have NEVER seen so much talk about a plastic $200 stock.
 

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And Jesus my lord I have NEVER seen so much talk about a plastic $200 stock.


No different than all the talk about a JAE.........


Some of us are unwilling to spent $1000 on a stock so we talk about less expensive options - My experiences with the promag are positive - It's not a drop in stock but with proper fitting it is a solid performer
 

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Fail to see how a CA definition has any bearing in NY.......



"And Jesus my lord I have NEVER seen so much talk about a plastic $200 stock. "

You don't seem to miss an opportunity post in these threads.
I agree. My comment or, rather, question, was whether or not NY had a definition for what a pistol grip was. Then, I gave an example of what CA's definition was.
I did not intend that it have a bearing, and if it appeared that way, I do apologize.
After posting I did a little internet research, and it appears that NY has no such definition. Though, I may have missed it since I didn't spend a lot of time on my search.
 

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Fail to see how a CA definition has any bearing in NY.......



"And Jesus my lord I have NEVER seen so much talk about a plastic $200 stock. "

You don't seem to miss an opportunity post in these threads.
I RESPOND to Posts. Like the vast majority of you, the rest of the house is asleep and I am bored.

One note about the "not a drop in stock" rap on the stock - at the SHOT show the old German guy who is PRomag's engineer says you are NOT supposed to dremel out the stock, but in fact FORCE the receiver in, and the plastic will seat around it.
 

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I think the real issue is NY has a bunch of different laws in different areas; rather than sift through them, shops just say no shipping to NY. Clyde's wouldn't ship my Mod 1 direct to me in CA. A friend in NY said to ship it to him, they looked into the laws for his area and it wasn't an issue, so they shipped to him. Some places will do this, some won't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for all of the info guys. I actually just changed vendors and they sent it out to me. I didn't mean to start an argument on this thread. It looks like a great stock to me. I seen and read many reviews. I don't think anybody is claiming anything extraordinary with this stock other than the comfort and ergonomics. I am on a wait list for McCann. In fact when I ordered it, it was about $300 bucks cheaper than it is today. I hope I like it. I will let you guys know and get some pics up when I get out to the range.
 

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In NY it is legal to install any stock you desire as long as the receiver is made before Sept 1994. Remember the 5 evil feature rule. That still applies in NY so a preban M1A is legal. You can install the stock on a post 94 receiver if the brake is pin/welded and the stock is fixed pinned or whatever. Example Sage mod 1 with pinned brake and pinned AR15 stock legal! Let me define evil features, pistol grip, tele-stock, flash hider, detachable magazine & bayonet lug!!!
 

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Just think you could live in NJ and deal with the State police ban list....

My FN FAL is legal because it dosent say FAL anywhere on the receiver...If it did, its illegal to own...Mines a Imbel L1A1...

My PTR-91 is legal because it dosent say G3 or cetme...

Polytech illegal because it says M14S on heel/receiver

SAI all ok....
 

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Gun Rider I will give it a try to force the receiver in . did he say anything else about the stock?
The rec will be a VERY tight fit but i have not had to do any fitting to get 1 in so far..... What you need to do to preserve the long term durability of the stock is to fit a standard stock ferrel to the Promag - After you fit the ferrel i would recommend you do a NM mod to the front end as well especially if you shoot with a sling (The Promag stock has limited clearance around the GC)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
JD All I have done to the front end is put in a SADLAK Titanium Coated gas piston and I shimmed it. I hope this isnt a dumb question but what do you mean by National Match Mod? By the way I have SA standard with a Winchester BBL. National match irons.
 

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Here is a LEGAL stock:



The promag grip goes beneath this line, so no matter how 3X your hands are, it is not legal for California, and they themselves acknowledge this.

And Jesus my lord I have NEVER seen so much talk about a plastic $200 stock.
Actually, I contacted "Mike" in the Technical Dept. at ProMag on Friday. He said that opinions are divided there as to whether or not it is legal, at roughly 50/50. However, he said that the stock has been examined by several SWAT team officers and their opinion was that it was good to go.

Again, the CA official definition refers to the web of the hand, between the thumb and index finger. So, showing pics of a part that deals with the heel of the hand does not comply.

However, Mike said that due to the mixed feelings about the stock, they are planning on coming out with a snap on part that will raise the hand a bit, to be more CA compliant.
 
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