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Don't get me wrong... I enjoy and subscribe to discipline/responsibility... but as unconventional warriors... Special Forces personal are not only trained to be unconventional... they are EXPECTED to be unconventional. This I do remember.

To wit.... herein lies the story of Special Forces Major Jim Gant who operated in Afghanistan in an unconventional way... and who was felled by a Lieutenant who didn't care for the way he did things there. Judge for yourself obviously... but as I see it... Major Gant did nothing wrong especially considering his regional success.

Click on HERE for the story.

Another sad story all around.
 

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I lost all of my rifles & handguns in a mishap on Rio Grande when the barge hit a sandbar and sank.
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I think, waaaaay back when, didn't the British once feel it was once highly dishonorable to fight unconventionally by breaking marching field ranks and embracing guerrilla type tactics? What about the targeting of British officers? How'd that turn out?

I believe all these things were thinking outside the box. Perhaps this guy's particular role may have gotten slightly blurry but we should be treasuring these guys and setting him up for an intelligence role instead of reprimanding and punishing. Maybe there's more to it, I dunno but American warfare has been about staying cutting edge from day one.....ever since those first tree deployed long rifles.
 

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Interesting story but comparing him or his accomplishments to T.E. Lawrence is borderline offensive. He may have been a "legend" in that nape of the woods and he may have a movie made about his exploits but he'll always be a long way off from Lawrence of friggin' Arabia and he'd probably tell you as much.
 

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I read about Gant a few month ago. The only questionable thing he did was start banging the reporter, only because of GO 1. Other than that, the guy was doing his job. Definitely a case of jealous butt hurt on the part of the desk jockeys.
 

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Doesn't quite seem fair to me. The Army has certainly gone quite a distance over the last 45 years. I'm just not sure in what direction.
 

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Rules is rules...I'd love to side with him but everything he was accused of doing has nothing to do with the hearts and minds of the Afghanistan people. He could have made the same accomplishments without the alcohol and drugs. Most Afghani are very religious , some borderline radicals where alcohol serves no purpose in their lives and drugs to make money. I'm sure he's a helluva guy and a helluva warrior but as an Officer in the military he should know better regardless of how "cool" he was. Think of the PVTs and the PFCs who were burned for less. I don't agree with it but there must be discipline within the ranks, regardless of how special your unit is. Besides, if he was forced out of the military, some LT might have started it, but someone else of higher rank made sure it happened. The man admits he was guilty. What else is there to be said?

By the way, thank you for your service CPT (MAJ) Gant.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Rules are not the same for Special Forces personnel. They are expected to be and are trained to be "unconventional".

Sorry, but he was within the realm of "unconventional" as far as his work productivity. I do agree he should be punished for having personal relations with that female reporter (his wife). However, I wholly disagree with his having been demoted and forced out of service.

Special Forces ARE NOT regular line units. Plain and simple. Don't know that? Then go read up on it. I remember well my SF training and they had us doing stuff which made me shake me head (on the inside) as it went wholly against my personal ethics. Reality being what it is... sometimes one has to turn the cheek to get things done in a war zone.

That's my dos centavos... nothing more and nothing less.
 
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Contrast the treatment of Major Grant by the "desk jockey command" with the treatment of Sgt. Bowe Berdahl. Heck, a lot of Americans celebrated Berdahl as some kind of a hero.

This is one of the SAD results of a "fundamentally changed America" ushered in by the current administration.

With utmost respect to all warriors - past, present and future.

D1
 

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Rules are not the same for Special Forces personnel. They are expected to be and are trained to be "unconventional".

Sorry, but he was within the realm of "unconventional" as far as his work productivity. I do agree he should be punished for having personal relations with that female reporter (his wife). However, I wholly disagree with his having been demoted and forced out of service.

Special Forces ARE NOT regular line units. Plain and simple. Don't know that? Then go read up on it. I remember well my SF training and they had us doing stuff which made me shake me head (on the inside) as it went wholly against my personal ethics. Reality being what it is... sometimes one has to turn the cheek to get things done in a war zone.

That's my dos centavos... nothing more and nothing less.
I agree. My argument is he could have done it without the drugs and alcohol regardless of the "unconventional" background SF is. As far as the relationship with the reporter, even though they are married now, he committed adultery and that's a BIG no no in the military and was probably icing on the cake. It also makes one wonder how much inside information she was privy to even if she wasn't.
 
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We have those who would think to lead us(politicians) in this country everyday that do far worse than this man and slide on by with no repercussions. We have an absentee CiC that would rather spend the day playing golf with his World Bank President, former President of Dartmouth College, and former lobbyist turned ambassador buddies rather than attend the Major General Greene funeral.

I don't care what Major Gant was doing, he was getting the job done. He put his a** on the line everyday to try and make us safe all the while the administration seems hell bend on doing the exact opposite.

Col. Jessup said it the best in regards to those who sit behind desks in Washington, those who leave at the end of their shifts to return to their nice and safe homes.

[youtube]JCBwONH3F-8[/youtube]
 

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He could have made the same accomplishments without the alcohol and drugs. Most Afghani are very religious , some borderline radicals where alcohol serves no purpose in their lives and drugs to make money.
Perhaps the drugs and alcohol weren't necessary; I'd like to read the book before I made that determination. As for drugs and alcohol in Afghanistan, that stuff was everywhere. This notion that Muslims don't use alcohol and drugs just because the Koran says not to is unfounded.
 

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Rules is rules.

My time was all SF with 16 months in a border camp living with Cambodians and Montagnards. We were as far from the flagpole as you can get, but we were still soldiers in the US Army.

The guy was not Col Kurtz. He was still in the army and had an SOP which he violated.

I belong to a couple closed SF boards, youngsters and old timers.

Guys who know him regard him highly.

He let the old "Little head do the thinking for the big head" deal get him.

Not the 1st nor the last, but you don't get to make up your own rules.

SF training and qualification are for guys who can think outside the box and perform somewhat independently.

You just don't get to form up and be ringleader of your own circus.

Hard to believe he actually went that far.
 

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Someone said, "There are people running our government that shouldn't be allowed to play with matches."

This proves that point.
 

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I'm updating this thread with the following article, stolen from sofrep.com as posted there on 09/12/14, and which I consider too good not to share:



Another 9/11 and a Call for Sneakers on the Ground

Mark Miller

“We will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against [ISIS] in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven.” – President Obama


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Amen, Mister President. Another 9/11, another terror group killing Americans. We need to think long-term and reorganize for action, like our enemy does. I hope that, by next year, Americans combat advisers are on the ground across the planet in a hundred coordinated unconventional attacks against our enemies worldwide to mark the anniversary.

I was in Mongolia on a JCET when the airliners crashed into the World Trade Center. Like most Americans, I was sick and I was angry. I hoped and prayed that America would reorganize her military for a new kind of war to stamp out this cancer. I got half of what I prayed for.

After 9/11, Pentagon planners wanted to stage Desert Storm 2 in Afghanistan, just like they learned at War College. As they briefed their months-long force build up to get 500,000 soldiers to the most remote corner of the Earth, President Bush said, “No, we need something now.” What we got, through Pentagon desperation, was Army Special Forces, (the Green Berets) and their secret friends were able to operate independently.

Given mission type orders without the crushing burden of conventional command and control, about 150 Green Berets and Paramilitary Branch officers did what they were trained to do. They linked up with a band of outlaws and ruffians and took over Afghanistan. Had they continued to leverage local assets and provide training to groups supporting U.S. objectives, we may have never seen ISIS.

After that win, Big Army, frightened at the implications for future budgets, took ownership of the victory and sent a 3-star general and the 18th Airborne Corps Headquarters to command those 150 men. Rather than remain at K2 airbase, a safe and perfect command and control facility in a neighboring country, they moved into Afghanistan and went to the Army’s core competencies. They built bases and generated force structure. In the following 10 years, the U.S. Military became the primary source of revenue for the Taliban, who found taxing supply trucks superior to blowing them up.

On the domestic front, lack of intelligence coordination was blamed for the 9/11 attacks. Millions were spent on the new Department of Homeland Security. In 2014, the same old FBI remains in charge of investigating terror plots, and the southern border is as porous as ever. Lack of immigration enforcement has made infiltrating armed teams into the United States as simple as a desert hike.

Complicating matters, a very successful conventional invasion of Iraq was overshadowed by flawed implementation of reconstruction. We tried to impose poorly thought-out and idealistic programs on an ancient culture in the cradle of civilization. They chose to stay in the 7th century and fight each other, giving us the situation we face today with ISIS. Better early management of Iraqi security assets could have avoided that.

I am heartened by President Obama’s speech. I am happy to hear that we are avoiding “Boots on the Ground.” Not so long ago, President Reagan was faced with the problem of an expansionary revolutionary movement in El Salvador. A Communist victory there would have destabilized a region within walking distance of Texas and California. President Reagan declared that we would send 55 advisors to help the Salvadorians. The Special Forces MILGRP commander’s motto was, “Keep it Simple, Small and Salvadorian.” I am proud to have been one of those 55 during the FMLN’s Final Offensive. The victory cost American lives and took decades, but it was certain and left a stable peace. We can do that again and again.

We don’t need infantry divisions to fight ISIS; that will make us a convenient target and disperse them, making ISIS harder to kill. We need indigenous sneakers on the ground. We need to play to our strengths and show these bastards our version of asymmetric warfare. It is easy to forget that Americans INVENTED asymmetric warfare. When they talk about it in the War College it is described as a dangerous threat technique.

America is the only country in the world with a unit who’s stated primary mission is to train indigenous personnel in denied areas – United States Army Special Forces, aka the Green Berets. This mission has been denigrated and avoided since the initial successes in Afghanistan. It is time to let them work. Half the world is filled with angry people who hate ISIS. Let’s bring all of them together and hit ISIS with a cloud of steel rain.

What we need is a Kennedy moment of clarity.

“Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. - John F. Kennedy

We have the greatest system of intelligence and air forces in history and they get better each day. We have a vast cadre of combat experienced Green Berets. The CIA has decades of solid experience fighting these type of extremists. We need to stand up a dedicated joint unconventional warfare headquarters with the status of JSOC and allow its commander to deploy combat advisers and covert assistance to carefully chosen and monitored groups. Leverage our ability to conduct air strikes and collect actionable intelligence into coordinated unconventional operations conducted by local forces.

At home, we need to take ISIS threats very seriously. We must close our borders to random international travelers and continue to attack the Drug Cartels, who control large portions of Mexico. We must continue the aggressive vigilance against domestic terror without regard to political correctness. Groups who advocate attacks on American should be taken at their word and dismantled with the full force of immigration law and violent justice.

Politics will always be with us. I hope our leaders will realize what all Americans want is a safe homeland and an effective government. Not perfection, but the will to conduct aggressive offensive actions against those who threaten America and civilization. Precise strikes using local assets avoid collateral damage and remove the cover from hidden extremest among civilians. History and voters reward victory. Fortune favors the bold.

We have a mature unconventional warfare doctrine. We have all the resources and Green Berets and Paramilitary Branch officers we need, and we can train more. We have spent the last generation hoping these bad guys would go away. They spent a generation radicalizing their kids and learning the internet. Let’s spend the next generation hunting them down and killing them in precise and surprising ways.


Read more: http://sofrep.com/36931/another-911-call-sneakers-ground/#ixzz3Ds3jWhR1
 

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Interesting story but comparing him or his accomplishments to T.E. Lawrence is borderline offensive. He may have been a "legend" in that nape of the woods and he may have a movie made about his exploits but he'll always be a long way off from Lawrence of friggin' Arabia and he'd probably tell you as much.
Not wanting to change the thread at all just curious how close the movie " Lawrence of Arabia " was to the truth about Lawrence? I thought you might answer that question for me Mr. Jarhead. Thanks for any response.
 
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