M14 Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was in a military surplus/gun store the other day and saw a gun that looked familiar, but different. I picked it up and talked to the owner. He said it was an American made Mosin–Nagant. It was much cleaner looking than any I had ever seen. The action was very smooth and all the metal work as well as the stock had a much more finished look to it. The guy seemed to be a trader and I have some stuff he might be interested in. I am going back. This is a cool place just North of Memphis that has a WW2 museum in this guys yard. He has a helicopter in the side yard!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,420 Posts
When the Russian/Bolshevik Revolution occurred in 1917 a good many of these were still in this country awaiting shipment to the Czar, many of these were taken into US service for training purposes. Before the recent imports from the last 25 years these were about the only Mosin Nagants that you would see. Mosins were actually rather rare in this country during the 50's through the early 80's. The first M91/30 sniper that I ever saw was a Vietnam bring back that was big money in those days. My first SKS was a Soviet made Vietnam war trophy that I bought in 1979, problem was ammo, 7.62x39mm was very hard to get, only Lapua @ $1.25 a round.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Saw a Remington bolt on a Finn barreled Mosin at a LGS here west of Ft. Worth about a month ago, nice rifle, but my Tula shoots just fine for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
How much did he want for it. Some of these ended up being US issue! And some of these are worth a LOT if not sporterized.

The pre red Russians ordered 1.5 million nagant rifles from Westinghouse and Remington. After the revolution the now commie Russians told Remington and Westinghouse to stuff themselves and reneged on the deal.

To keep Remington and Westinghouse from going under the US ARMY ended up buying the rifles. They were used as drill rifles and foreign aid mostly due to the caliber. Many ended up as the first rifles sold off thru the newly set up Director of Civilian Marksmanship. (now the CMP).

Unfortunately, 7.62X54R was not very available. So it became common to re-chamber the rifles for 30-06. In this condition they are dangerous.

If you have found an unchanged American issue mosin. You better snap that thing up. They are worth a pretty penny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
839 Posts
That's the sorta thing I wish we still made, I think its also high time for an SKS type carbine made in America in .308
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
When the Russian/Bolshevik Revolution occurred in 1917 a good many of these were still in this country awaiting shipment to the Czar, many of these were taken into US service for training purposes. Before the recent imports from the last 25 years these were about the only Mosin Nagants that you would see. Mosins were actually rather rare in this country during the 50's through the early 80's. The first M91/30 sniper that I ever saw was a Vietnam bring back that was big money in those days. My first SKS was a Soviet made Vietnam war trophy that I bought in 1979, problem was ammo, 7.62x39mm was very hard to get, only Lapua @ $1.25 a round.
Yeah, I got my first SKS in 1975, it was a Russian Vietnam bringback and I paid $115.00 for it (my Mom, a John Birch Society member freaked the eff out when I brought it home, "I'M NOT HAVING SOME D*MN COMMUNIST RIFLE IN MY HOUSE!", I had to explain to her it was CAPTURED, not purchase from the "commies"). The same gunshop had TWO Moisin-Nagant bringback snipers: one with a PE scope and the other with a PU scope (I didn't know the difference at the time). Both were priced at $575.00. There were only two places that sold 7.62X39 back then in Phoenix, a gunshop in Scottsdale called "Dons Sport Shop" that had that gawd awfull expensive Norma, and a big pawn/gunshop in central Phoenix called "The Jewel Box". They had Soviet ball loose in a box at $5.95 for 20 rounds which wasn't too bad (where they got it I never asked).

Around 1977 I got my first SVT-40 Tokarev, marked "SA", a Finnish Winter War capture. It was VERY difficult to find ammo for it, and good ammo when I did find it, wasn't cheap. Most shooters today don't realize how good we have it. "Back in the day" you could only buy ammo at a store (hardware store, gun counter at a department store, gunshop). No internet sales at all. Ammo is CHEAP compared to what it used to be. Fr'instance I was making minimum wage when I was 18 which was $1.60 an hour. Buying one box of 7.62X39 cost me almost four hours of work. Remington .223 was $4.00 a box and that took me two and a half hours of work to buy. As far as variety-if the gunshops didn't have it, you didn't buy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
Nothing like a nice handy reliable carbine that you can hunt, use for SD etc with, and something that actually has sights and isn't a bolt gun or 'EBR'
Then why not just go with an M1A with a 16" or 18" barrel in a synthetic stock or an M1 Garand "Tanker"? I've been shooting SKS carbines since 1975 but the last thing I'd want is one in 7.62X51, no box magazine and compared to how fast you can load an M-1, loading an SKS by stripper clip either takes all day or the rest of your life. The SKS, while a handy carbine and fun, was basically a design dead end.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,420 Posts
Nothing like a nice handy reliable carbine that you can hunt, use for SD etc with, and something that actually has sights and isn't a bolt gun or 'EBR'
Look up the Hk SL 7, they came out with one, it didn't sell well, too expensive and too many other choices that were cheaper, better. I remember my gun dealer having them back in the mid 80's, I bought a new Hk 91A3 instead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
How much did he want for it. Some of these ended up being US issue! And some of these are worth a LOT if not sporterized.

The pre red Russians ordered 1.5 million nagant rifles from Westinghouse and Remington. After the revolution the now commie Russians told Remington and Westinghouse to stuff themselves and reneged on the deal.

To keep Remington and Westinghouse from going under the US ARMY ended up buying the rifles. They were used as drill rifles and foreign aid mostly due to the caliber. Many ended up as the first rifles sold off thru the newly set up Director of Civilian Marksmanship. (now the CMP).

Unfortunately, 7.62X54R was not very available. So it became common to re-chamber the rifles for 30-06. In this condition they are dangerous.

If you have found an unchanged American issue mosin. You better snap that thing up. They are worth a pretty penny.
I don't remember if it was $248or $348. I remember thinking it was too much, but I may have been mistaken. It looked to be all original, not sporterized and chambered for the 7.62x54R. I have several mauser's that I have no interest in. I am going to go see what kind of trading I can do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
946 Posts
American TROOPS used U. S. made Mosin-Nagants in Archangel Russia from 1918-1919. So, if you don't have one, you don't have a "complete" collection of US Military "issue" rifles. And yes, they were used in "combat."

United States 167 killed, 29 missing, 12 captured

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,420 Posts
I had a Westinghouse that was marked with SA, the Finnish mark. The but stock was most likely American walnut but the fore stock in front of the magazine was repaired/spliced the usual Finnish way with a much lighter wood, probably birch. It had been around and used quite a bit before it found a home on my wall. History gives us some interesting lessons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,936 Posts
I don't remember if it was $248or $348. I remember thinking it was too much, but I may have been mistaken. It looked to be all original, not sporterized and chambered for the 7.62x54R. I have several mauser's that I have no interest in. I am going to go see what kind of trading I can do.
Your mileage may very. It still could be a finn capture and rebuild.

But if it's original and has no import marks and isn't rebuilt. It's a collectible. More so if it has US ordinance stamps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,069 Posts
A few more details.

U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916:

Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin–Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated "U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916", these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France.

During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $3.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard .30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top