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Well, I tried to zero in the iron sights on my M1a. I had problems with the scope , but it turns out the mount was not attached correctly. So, parts on order, what would it do with iron? Before going out, I did a bore sight. At the range it took 16 clicks to the right to make zero. It ended up with the windage adjustment one whole mark right of the center. The front sight is centered so I assume I can move it over enough to compensate...

I guess my real question is: Is this uncommon or am I just expecting too much that a "quality rifle" should zero pretty close to the zero marks? Hmmm! And 16 clicks from the bore sight zero seems weird and questionable. The chamber is pointed at a different place than the barrel? Hmmm?
 

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I had my M1A loaded model 14 clicks right at the range then moved my front sight to make up for it amd recenter my rear sight.
 

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I would get rid of the laser bore sighter and just try to go old fashioned with the irons.

Everyone will be different on elevation and windage, your body/neck cheek weld and posture is going to be different than the next guy. I have never done too much fiddling with my windage out of the box, but elevation can vary slightly with your load and distance. What distance are you working at?

If you don't trust your eyes, get a buddy who's aim you do trust and have him work with it. If all else fails, go to an Appleseed shoot and get some good info on sight alignment and the adjustment of your irons.
 

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i would get rid of the laser bore sighter and just try to go old fashioned with the irons.

Everyone will be different on elevation and windage, your body/neck cheek weld and posture is going to be different than the next guy. I have never done too much fiddling with my windage out of the box, but elevation can vary slightly with your load and distance. What distance are you working at?
+1
 

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Every bore sighter I have tried has gave me nothing but problems. Throw it in the trash. Put a target up at 100 yards and try to get your zero off it. Then go to 200.
 

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When first zeroing the rifle, you keep your rear sight indexed in the center and move your front sight until the POI is at POA. This is usually done at 25 meters, so that the wind does not effect it. After that, you can adjust your rear sight to compensate for current wind conditions as needed.

The front sight is mounted on a removeable part (flash hider/muzzle brake). These parts are made by numerous manufactures using every possible method known, so the odds of your front sight ending up perfectly centered are a roll of the dice. Precision after market (SEI) and original GI tend to line up pretty well. The cast parts currently used by SAI leave a lot to be desired. I think highly of SAI, but their current flash hiders and muzzle brakes are not always well made.
 

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I'm curious why didn't the scope mount correctly....and you needed to buy parts ?
What kind of scope mount do you have ?
 

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Sounds like he already took the old fashion approach. Yeah, normal in my life anyway.
 

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With bolt actions, eye (pun intended) would remove the bolt ,zero the bore to target with EYEBALL, then align the scope, to EYEBALL/BORE zero. Looking though the bore is better than any peep sight/liezer. Gun has to remain absolute solid. Then sight scope.

Cant do that with a M!A. If your mount/scope allows both scope and iron usage. Zero your irons , say at 50 (yes shooting them). Put the gun in a hold and line up the irons, then adjust your scope to that.

That will get you close to sighting in the scope. See how you mounts/rings get you to center of adjustment. If you are off center, play with the mount or rings so when you sight in you can adjust. Go back to the above and check. Shoot a few.

This has worked for me. When I went to 100 using a 3rd Gen SAI mount and OLD redfield 6 X 18, M1ANM, took about 5 shots to 0, then could put a whole mag in a small circle you could cover with a half dollar. The gun really liked that ammo.

P.S. takes a while to get used to peep sights if learned on regular irons or worse on scopes.

For your gun , center the rear adjustments on the peep. Shoot, then make the windage correct using the front, so you hit 0.
 

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First step would be to have someone else who is a good shooter with iron sights to shoot your rifle, to verify that your 'zero' is not just dependent on YOU.

If you are unhappy with the amount of front sight adjustment that would be necessary to get the rear sight to 'mechanical zero', then call Springfield and ask if that amount of movement is within their 'quality spec', because you were not expecting it to be so much.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
 

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Every bore sighter I have tried has gave me nothing but problems. Throw it in the trash. Put a target up at 100 yards and try to get your zero off it. Then go to 200.
I bore sighted my rifle initially and found I had to feed in right windage to actually zero it. I guess I could adjust the front sight to get the rear sight exactly centered, but my rifle is shooting too good for me to mess with it.

It's been 17 years now, but I still don't feel like messing with it!
 

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What type of rear sight do you have? When you are counting clicks, are they 1 MOA/click on standard sights or 1/2MOA per click NM sights?

Also with laser boresighters, if it's the type that looks like a cartridge and goes in the chamber, if you close the bolt on it while sighting in the spring loaded ejector will push the laser out of whack. Learned this the hard way. GI1
 

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Well, I tried to zero in the iron sights on my M1a. I had problems with the scope , but it turns out the mount was not attached correctly. So, parts on order, what would it do with iron? Before going out, I did a bore sight. At the range it took 16 clicks to the right to make zero. It ended up with the windage adjustment one whole mark right of the center. The front sight is centered so I assume I can move it over enough to compensate...

I guess my real question is: Is this uncommon or am I just expecting too much that a "quality rifle" should zero pretty close to the zero marks? Hmmm! And 16 clicks from the bore sight zero seems weird and questionable. The chamber is pointed at a different place than the barrel? Hmmm?
Is it 16 clicks right of the mechanical zero line or is it one click right of the mechanical zero line. There's a big difference. For one click I wouldn't worry about it, 16 clicks move the front sight(is the front sight centered or does it just "look centered?"). I guess my real question is at this point why are you doubting you have a "quality rifle." You're not being paranoid but your impatience is showing through and impatience will get you nothing but grief working with firearms. Step back, relax, go get a couple beers. Tomorrow is another day.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
First, I bought the rifle used and didn't realize, in my ignorance, that an SAI scope mount uses two knurled knobs, one of which is on the clip guide replacement. My rifle, no screw threads in replacement clip guide. In fact no replacement guide just the original clip guide. So the shots with the scope were always strung out horizontally--vertically 1 inch, horizontally 4 inches. Found out about mount and ordered parts from SA-- problem solved? We shall see.

I zeroed the iron at 25 yards. OK, I know laser boresights are not ideal. Its just that so many clicks to get to the real zero... If I could look down the barrel, would it be looking at a different place, maybe the real zero, meaning the chamber (with the laser) is pointing at a different direction than the barrel, (which cannot be good for accuracy.) The difference is about .6 degree. (Looking out the bore of an 18 inch 30 caliber barrel, would give you a 1 degree field of view) Maybe that's why laser bore sights are so error prone? -- chamber and barrel not aligned that exactly. How much difference could this make? I don't know. A fraction of a grain of powder appears to make a measurable difference. So...

The marks on the rear sight appear to be about .028 to .030 spacing (roughly using calipers). So I am going to assert that I would need to move the front sight by the same amount to get my rear sight to a mechanical rear center. This does not seem excessive I suppose, since there is +/-.055 of movement on the front sight. And what I'm hearing is that this is why front sights are adjustable -- to make up for variations in manufacturing.

I qualified with an M14 in the good old USMC, which does not make me an expert but I have looked down an iron sight before. I have a H&R CMP M1 that is amazing at 100 yds--similar sights.

Things to ponder as I am at the range wondering how to improve accuracy.

Bottom line : I am being too picky.




.
 

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Something still not making sense... The lines on the rear of the receiver mark 4 clicks, 4 MOA, one full turn of the windage knob.

How are you getting 16 clicks to one line? Do you have 1/4 MOA rear windage? It's possible if someone cut SAI-style 8 click 1/2 MOA ball and detent notches into a USGI-style 1/2 MOA NM windage knob (1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4)

Just to confirm, about .008" at the sight = 1 MOA and that's what standard sights give per click. The hash marks should be .032" apart. If you are getting 16 clicks to .032", you my friend have 1/4 MOA rear windage adjustments.
 

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As stated before there are a lot of variables to zeroing a rifle starting with you. Your zero and my zero will be different, but you know that. I will let the experts here go into intricacies of the sights etc. but as you asked if you are being paranoid? I adjusted my front sight on my SAI super match with a Douglas barrel when I zeroed it as it was impacting about 5" to the right at 100yds. So is your adjustment too big? I don't know enough to answer it but I do know even when you purchase a rifle like this you can have adjustments to make. The pic below is after I zeroed it at 100 yds by adjusting the front sight to compensate for the 5" off center for my eyes and skill level. I love this forum I learn at least 2-3 new things everyday!
 
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