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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After years of using IMR 4895 with 168/175 Sierra BTHP I started load developing with H4895. It didn't go so well so I stopped and went looking for IMR4895 in earnest and found 3 lbs at pretty hefty cost. I have a custom Fed Ord with a 1-10 twist heavy Krieger and a Springfield Armory national match in 1-11 twist. Both have ARMS scope mounts and since I'm slowly getting old and blinder by the day I purchased 2 FFP scopes with up to 24 power magnification. My old Westernfield 4x was having a hard time at 300 yards to say the least. The Springfield likes 40.5 to 41 grains with either 168/175 and the Fed Ord likes 40 to 40.5 grains. I'm getting around 2470 FPS out of both guns and posting consistent .75 groups at 100 yards and 3.5 to 4 inches at 300 yards. I had 500 palma 155 Sierra's laying around and thought I'd try them with IMR 4895 just because the 168's are getting hard to find. At 44.5 grains of IMR 4895 both guns are showing crazy accuracy with 3 round groups at 100 .342 / 200 1.0765 / 300 3.22 as measured. I've using Winchester brass CCI BR2 or Fed 210 primers and bumping brass to 2 to 3 thousandths under chamber headspace and annealing afeter every firing. No crimp just neck tension of about 2 to 3 thousandths. Have y'll tried the 155 palma's and have you been able to get H4895 to work in your guns ?? What kinda of accuracy are y'll seeing ??? I'm a old benchrest shooter and varmint killer I'm used to inch groups at 300 yards.. I know that's not gonna happen with a gas gun but it sure is fun to shoot. CWO
 

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Having fun is the name of the game. My brass prep is similar to yours. Haven't found any great difference in powders performance although I did like Varget for a time. As the supply in my stash has been dwindling , I have found IMR-8208 to be a great performer. IMR-4895 has been a great powder and I keep a good supply on hand. Also seeing good results with BL-C 2, RL-15 and 4064 when I manage the heavier bullets 168/175s in the 2500 to 2550 range. My favorites with the M14 are 136 and 150 flat based bullets running at 2600 - 2675 depending on the rifle I am using.
Shot this target a couple of weeks ago using 8208 and 150 gn bullets in one of my builds using a std weight USGI spec chrome lined barrel. 9 of 10 shots at 100 yds are in the .5 moa area. Not too shabby eh?


eh
10 dot 1.jpg
New setup 1.jpg
 

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Great shooting Art.
 

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Since Art mentioned Varget, I will give my experiences with Varget. It is an accurate propellant. It also is rather temperature insensitive and that is very good if you shoot in varying temperatures. However, the lot to lot variation is quite high. If you plan on using it, buy a large quantity from a single lot. When you change lots be prepared to readjust your load or rezero your rifle.
 

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Pardon my ignorance, but do the numbers and letters in powder types mean anything?
As far as I've ever heard, IMR stands for Improved Military Rifle Powder. The numbers likely meant something to the company (perhaps a project number, or development sequence, or something else) but it isn't any type of nomenclature that you can decode into performance properties as far as I know.

EDIT: and if somebody knows different than this, please chime in because my answer is based entirely on "what I've heard" vs "what I know as a fact".
 

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Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if it was like motor oil. :LOL: I wondered if the numbers were burn rates, powder particle size, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Having fun is the name of the game. My brass prep is similar to yours. Haven't found any great difference in powders performance although I did like Varget for a time. As the supply in my stash has been dwindling , I have found IMR-8208 to be a great performer. IMR-4895 has been a great powder and I keep a good supply on hand. Also seeing good results with BL-C 2, RL-15 and 4064 when I manage the heavier bullets 168/175s in the 2500 to 2550 range. My favorites with the M14 are 136 and 150 flat based bullets running at 2600 - 2675 depending on the rifle I am using.
Shot this target a couple of weeks ago using 8208 and 150 gn bullets in one of my builds using a std weight USGI spec chrome lined barrel. 9 of 10 shots at 100 yds are in the .5 moa area. Not too shabby eh?


eh View attachment 452193 View attachment 452194
Nice. Great shooting also. Haven't tried that target set yet. I was just amazed how tight a group I was getting at 100 and 200. Was really disappointed at three hundred until I had a chance to think about it overnight. I'm not used to seeing such a big increase in group size and initially thought my barrel was worn out. lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Pardon my ignorance, but do the numbers and letters in powder types mean anything?
Made by different manufactures. Sometimes the numbers aren't a like. I use a burn rate chart and go cautiously until I gain experience in one powder to another. CWO
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Since Art mentioned Varget, I will give my experiences with Varget. It is an accurate propellant. It also is rather temperature insensitive and that is very good if you shoot in varying temperatures. However, the lot to lot variation is quite high. If you plan on using it, buy a large quantity from a single lot. When you change lots be prepared to readjust your load or rezero your rifle.
Varget is my go to powder in my bolt guns. I like rl 15 as well. Shoot the same pills 155's with 46.4 varget and lapua brass in my Sendero 700. The Remington will shoot the 168 and 175 grain bullets I load for the M14/M1A and getting 1.25 groups at 300 yards. But, way to slow in f class to be competitive. Even my 22-250 M14 with 69 grain Sierra's love IMR4895. Have alot of test data that I received from my dad who loved to experiment and record the data in log books over a extended period of time. Been a great source of information and time saving to say the least. I hope I'm not coming across as boastful. Trying to be honest without sounding like a jerk. This forum is a treasure as well as the folks who reside in it. CWO
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Having fun is the name of the game. My brass prep is similar to yours. Haven't found any great difference in powders performance although I did like Varget for a time. As the supply in my stash has been dwindling , I have found IMR-8208 to be a great performer. IMR-4895 has been a great powder and I keep a good supply on hand. Also seeing good results with BL-C 2, RL-15 and 4064 when I manage the heavier bullets 168/175s in the 2500 to 2550 range. My favorites with the M14 are 136 and 150 flat based bullets running at 2600 - 2675 depending on the rifle I am using.
Shot this target a couple of weeks ago using 8208 and 150 gn bullets in one of my builds using a std weight USGI spec chrome lined barrel. 9 of 10 shots at 100 yds are in the .5 moa area. Not too shabby eh?


eh View attachment 452193 View attachment 452194
What size are the circles on your target showing ?? How do you average your shots ?? I'm unfamiliar with the target your using. CWO
 

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What size are the circles on your target showing ?? How do you average your shots ?? I'm unfamiliar with the target your using. CWO
Dots are 1". I use a transparent overlay and mark the shots. The 10 dot challenge is one of the best tests of the M14 system, rifle , ammo and shooter working together.
 

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I see your new here sir welcome to the forum.
I would try using imr4064.
41.7 grains with a 175gr HPBT
42.5 grains with a 168 gr HPBT
Guarantee Sub MOA loads. A great powder for the M14, clean burning and a good burn rate.
 

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Gotta ask about the stock and cheekrest, where'd you get them?
Stock came from the PX here and the cheekrest is an ITC Marksmanship wet suit material rest bought on Amazon. I have 3 of these cheek rests now and they seem to do a good job.
Draw from the bedded stock is right about 25 lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I see your new here sir welcome to the forum.
I would try using imr4064.
41.7 grains with a 175gr HPBT
42.5 grains with a 168 gr HPBT
Guarantee Sub MOA loads. A great powder for the M14, clean burning and a good burn rate.
Tried imr4064 20 years ago and after changing grains/primers/brass and overall length it just wasn't performing in my NM. My chamber HS is 1.631 and my pressure signs show early. SD/SE could be achieved but the window was a lot smaller than the imr4895 and I'll go for the larger window every time. Trust me several thousands rounds in 3 different guns I'll stick with the nasty imr4895. When I found a jug or two the other day you would have thought it was Christmas or I hit the lottery.. lol But, appreciate your infor. I'll go back to 4064 if I have to. CWO
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I see your new here sir welcome to the forum.
I would try using imr4064.
41.7 grains with a 175gr HPBT
42.5 grains with a 168 gr HPBT
Guarantee Sub MOA loads. A great powder for the M14, clean burning and a good burn rate.
Checked my records and my best load (4064) with 168 Sierra was 43 grains. Was shooting sub moa at around 2500 FPS. The 4895 had a big window from 40 to 41 grains and round groups. Shot at Raton 1000 yard range with 41 grains of im4895 with LC brass brass and was averaging 2550 FPS. Did ok but the wind really played havoc with my groups. Should have taken some 175 smk I'm not sure if they where available 1998. The 190's where beating me and my gun up and I quit shooting them but see no advantage at 1000 yards as I couldn't get them fast enough. 173 military where a joke and I still have several hundred moly coated and don't want to waste the powder to load them. Regards CWO
 

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I think the M1A/M14 is an inherently accurate platform. Ignoring reloads for a moment, this is an old box of 1978 Hirtenberger, prone at 100 yds from an M1A in a GI fiberglass stock, unbedded and unreinforced. Even with me screwing up windage the rifle did its job. View attachment 452278
 
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