[rich s]

ok guys heres the set up loaded m1a ss nm barrel , smith muzzle break ,sadlak spring guide , sage ebr chassis , vortex viper pts with Laure tactical rings .the front scope ring is mounted on the stock while the rear is on the sage stripper clip mount they offer . im having erratic bullet impact at 300 yards in about a 6 in group i checked every thing its all tight , my only findings were the opening of the stock were the lugs sit are about .040 bigger then the actual lugs so i temporarily added aluminum tap to take up the slop three pieces on each side and its still the same, im shooting sierra mk 168 with hogdon 4895 @ 43 grns has any one had this issue with something like this or am i expecting to much from this rifle , id like to hold 2 in groups at 300 yards .

 

[levisdad]

First thing that I would suggest is load 41.5gr of 4895 and see how it groups.

I tried a 43gr/4895/168s one time and it was ugly.

 

[rich s]

Will do last time I shot it I shot 42.5 and at 60 meters it held 1.5 group with irons I think the issue is with opening in the stock

 

[rose725751]

H4895 @43gn w/168 serria mk @ 300 yrds?? I tried that at 100yrds and noticed that my group was all over the place Like about 3, 4 MOA. I had tried that same set up with 41.2gn and my group was alot tighter, less than 1 MOA @ 100 yrds.
Take a look at your brass and check the primer, chances are that it is a flat primmer, you are running a hot loadDISHOUT

 

[CHARLIED308]

When I reloaded for my M1A I ran 40.5 grains of H4895 and a 168g HPBT Match bullet. With irons, I could shoot in the neighborhood of 4" to 4-1/2" at 300 yards with fresh bedding.

 

[bigbang]

2" at 300, that is 0.5 MOA. You need a lot of practice to shoot this consitantly.

 

[RAMMAC]

Will do last time I shot it I shot 42.5 and at 60 meters it held 1.5 group with irons I think the issue is with opening in the stock

I hate to rain on your parade but if you do the math 1.5" at 60 meters works out to about 2.5 MOA. So your rifle presented a 2.5 MOA capability at close range; and one MOA at 300 yards is about 3". So, if your rifle were a true 2.5 MOA shooter, then you should be getting 7.5" groups at 300 yards. Since the size of your 300 yard group, approx. 2 MOA, was smaller than your 60 yard group I would say that you haven't really pinned down the rifle's true accuracy capability. Either something is moving, the ammo isn't working as well as it should, or the shooter just hasn't developed the skills to shoot consistently. In addition, I think that you have expectations that are beyond the capability of most M1As and most shooters. Unless you can hold groups that are a little less than 0.75" at 100 yards you wont be able to get 2" groups at 300 yards.

I don't think anybody can provide particularly helpful suggestions at this point because there isn't enough info to work from. Did you test the rifle's accuracy before you added all the parts? If so, then what kind of groups were you getting, with what ammo, at what ranges, under what kind of shooting circumstances? There are three areas that you need to troubleshoot; the rifle, the ammo, and the shooter. Unless you have a base to compare against you can't tell where the problem might be. I do agree however, that the load you are using isn't the best for accuracy.

If it were my rifle I would take it back to it's original form, stock, iron sights, etc. and test with a known good factory cartridge or hand load (around 41 grains of IMR 4895 or IMR 4064 and 168 grain Hornady A-Max bullets are a very accuracy load). Then I would tweak the rifle and my shooting skills until I could get consistent 1" groups at 100 yards. Then add parts and fix the accuracy issues as they arise.

That mount configuration sounds like a potential nightmare. All scope mounts need to be aligned with the bore in order to get the best performance from them and that's hard enough with a single mount, with a two piece mount it really complicates the issue and then two pieces that weren't even designed to work together...that's just a disaster in the making. Did you check the centerline of the scope's tube and compare it against the centerline of the rifle's bore? Both centerlines need to be parallel. Did you torque the mounting screws? If not then there is a possibility that there is movement. You may not be able to see it with your eye but all it takes is a couple of thousandths of an inch of scope movement to shift the POI an inch or more at 100 yards. In fact, if you work the numbers a little you will find that 0.002" movement in the scope could push the POI 0.75" at 300 yards. One other sighting issue that most people don't recognize as a problem is rifle cant. You can induce several inches of error at 300 yards with just a couple degrees of cant to the rifle.

I can't be of much help in regards to the stock, I've never worked with a SAGE but, as with any stock, it would be another potential problem area since the fit between the receiver and the stock is critical to the accuracy of the rifle. Obviously the main thing to look for would be any movement of the receiver within the stock, I know you mentioned the excess clearance in the area of the lugs but I have no idea if that is normal for the SAGE stock. Also look for any areas of contact along the barrel or the gas cylinder.

 

[Bimmer]

... im having erratic bullet impact at 300 yards in about a 6 in group...

First, some apostrophes and capital letters would make your post a lot more intelligible...

Second, 6" groups at 300yds isn't "erratic." Like RAMMAC said, that's a 2moa, which is pretty decent for an M14-type.

I think that you have expectations that are beyond the capability of most M1As and most shooters.

+1

... id like to hold 2 in groups at 300 yards.

I'd like to hold Angelina Jolie, but I don't think that's realistic, either.

 

[nf1e]

I heard about a fella that could shoot bottle caps hung on the 300yd stantion. Only problem was, he shot standing at the 295 yard line. The M14 is a great rifle, and built right a heck of a shooter but sub 1/2 moa. is a pipe dream. Don't worry, bigger bubbles than that have been burst on the forum. Enjoy you rifle. Shoot lots and work at the 1.5 moa. range.
Semper Fi
Art

 

[CHARLIED308]

I know that I shot better without a scope than with one mounted on my rifle. I did not have a good cheekpiece to help me get a consistent stockweld. If you are wanting extreme precision out of your rifle, consistent stockweld is critical.

As far as loads, it took me a lot of time and testing to develop a load for my Remington 700 VLS that would shoot under 2" at 300 yards. It takes a lot of cat juggling to come up with the right load for a bolt action gun, so I would expect it to take a little bit longer for a semi-auto rifle of any configuration.

 

[JD Russell]

M14s are a bit of a mystery in that you can build 2 identical rifles, same rec, bolt, barrel, etc.... 1 might be average while the other turn out to be exceptional - I've seen GI spec rifles shoot as good if not better than a solid match rifles & I've seen HIGH DOLLAR "big name" builds that only shot average on a good day!

I now own the most accurate M14 I've ever had, it's a solid 1MOA & sometimes under rifle with factory match ammo, I'm confident it will group even better with handloads - Fulton rear lug rec, bedded stock, NOS GI parts & a chrome lined 22in WMMW barrel..... When i built the rifle i was a little disappointed because it was "only" shooting around 2in or so...... i kept tuning-n-tweaking & today it's as good as a poor boys M14 gets!!

The point I'm trying to make is while not all M14 will shoot like a house-a-fire ALL will shoot extremely well with high quality parts & some hard work from the owner

Good luck!!

 

[rich s]

Thanks for all the info boys I'm now at a stand still and will try to find the fix for it

 

[bigbang]

Leonard Bernstein was asked by a pedestrian how one can come to the opera. He answered: practice, practice, practice

 

[rich s]

Leonard Bernstein was asked by a pedestrian how one can come to the opera. He answered: practice, practice, practice

It's not the shooter , I shoot my bolty at 300 yards and achieve sub moa groups so it's clearly not the nut behind the trigger

 

[M14xman]

take the barrel tensioner screw out of the top of the stock and put it in a drawer somewhere. it is useless. which receiver do you have that would have slop at the stock entry? or did you mean the receiver legs ? i would take rams advice and ditch the scope till you have hard shooting data with irons.

 

[rich s]

I don't use the barrel tensioner it's a springfield receiver and the slop is in we're the two side lugs seat in the sage stock

 

[RAMMAC]

Why not pull the scope off and try the stock with irons? That's an easy start to troubleshooting. Test at 100 yards and look for consistent group sizes and something less than 2 MOA. If the rifle can do that then it's shooting pretty much average for irons at 100 yards and that will imply that the problem isn't in the stock or the receiver/barrel.

 

[dcobra823]

I would go back to basics like someone already stated! Strip the scope and mount check it with irons until your satisfied. Then I would go with a serious mount setup I mean this red flag scope mount setup needs to be refined or changed! When it comes to reloads that's fine tuning an already good system to get it better. I hope you reach your goal good luck.

 

[M14xman]

I don't use the barrel tensioner it's a springfield receiver and the slop is in we're the two side lugs seat in the sage stock

ok, you can try bedding in the stock. or take unit apart and rough up the front and back edge of legs on the receiver and the outside flats of them, then use JB weld, quick dry formula, and build up on them. file smooth and fit to stock again till it tightens up. pretty simple to do. it might crack and break off later some, but will tell you if it is the problem. it can be reversed easily by filing or grinding it off. you will not hurt the receiver. its that or sell the sage and buy another and hope for a tighter fit. maybe call sage and ask for replacement. tell them your stock is out of spec. i have never seen one loose. usually so tight you have to beat the action in and out of them.

 

[rich s]

Ok , the only spot it's tight is we're the op rod block is the reciver slips in an out with no problem