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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Using gas guns most of my life and now have 1000 yd itch.Age is creeping up and I have this on my bucket list.Spent this morning researching Savage 10 fcp sr.Read all the pro,s and con,s and as price is a major consideration should I keep searching for a 2013 or earlier model or have Savage build one to my spec,s.I,m aware of mag,scope base,stock problems,screw on muzzle cap shooting loose,ect but their price point is in my comfort zone.Any USEFUL suggestions appreciated.
 

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Find a Savage Axis. It used to have some other name but they got sued over the name.

All you need to do is replace the factory trigger with the AccuTrigger and you will have a more than acceptable bolt action for under 450, not including scope. I guess the caliber would be another decision, but the axis is an inherently accurate rifle, more so with the improved trigger.
 

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Good glass can make the difference between hitting consistently at that range, at least for me. A nice smooth aftermarket trigger like a Timney is a good upgrade that can help too.
m14brian
 

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Spent this morning researching Savage 10 fcp sr.
Looking at one of those myself... debating the 20 vs 24" barrel selection. I would prefer a semi bull barrel, but that's not an option. It already comes with the Accutrigger and Accustock... looks pretty good.
 

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I had nothing but problems with my savage 10 fcp mcmillan. It wasnt until I had a gunsmith look at it did I find that the scope mount holes were not correct which caused me to use excessive internal adjustments with my scope. Savage rook care of it for me, but for the price I paid for the rifle I didn't want the headache that came with it. When it came back I sold it and picked up an FN SPR A1 and never looked back. Mine shoots .2 moa with factory 175 smks too.
 

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How much money do you want to spend on the rifle by itself (no scope, mount or rings)?
This! You thought you spent a lot of cash tacticooling them gas guns? Welcome to precision shooting where what you dropped on them gas guns ain't nuthin'. Manage your expectations and start slow, especially since most folks don't really have a chance to strech out to even 500. A Savage 10 with an accu-trigger is more than adequate to handle what you want to do. Spend at least the same amount of cash on decent glass and you should be fine........until you get around other precision shooters and handle their rigs. GI1
 

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This! You thought you spent a lot of cash tacticooling them gas guns? Welcome to precision shooting where what you dropped on them gas guns ain't nuthin'. Manage your expectations and start slow, especially since most folks don't really have a chance to strech out to even 500. A Savage 10 with an accu-trigger is more than adequate to handle what you want to do. Spend at least the same amount of cash on decent glass and you should be fine........until you get around other precision shooters and handle their rigs. GI1
and after that you will need to take out a second mortgage to fund your addictions.

Another great rifle to look at is the Tikka which are great right out of the box.
 

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How much money do you want to spend on the rifle by itself (no scope, mount or rings)?
the above quote is the place to start... after you figure this out then you can proceed.
Within that calculation consider:
* do not cut the scope and mount system short..... research this and determine your goals.
*Do you want factory rifle or custom rifle?
Custom rifle - the options are limitless.
If you want a factory rifle, out of the box, the F-class shooters around here tell me that accuracy/per dollar spent (out of the box) that Savage is hard to beat....
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone for your insight.Despite a few short comings it appears the Savage will be the best bang for the buck.Custom build is out of the question as current rifle range is out to 300 yds and nearest 1000 yd range is in New York State.Might get there 3 or 4 times a year and F class competition would be a reach.Plan to call Savage on Monday with a few questions.Wish me luck.
 

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If you want to shoot to 1000 yds, you may want to start by picking a caliber thats balistically suited for that range. Even if you're not in a financial position to build a custom rifle, you're going to do better at 1000 with one of the fast, flat shooting 6/6.5/7 mm's than you will with a .308 gun. lots of good info in this series of articles, regarding caliber/ and optic selection. Of course nothing comes without a price, these calibers are known to wear out your barrel much faster than the slower ones.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/14/rifle-calibers-what-the-pros-use/
 

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I'm pretty sure the Savage F-Class 6.5x284 Norma will reach out there. I have the rifle but I haven't gotten hooked up with the group that shoots long distance. I will definitely need a better scope.

The basic rifle is $1150 at Cabela's.

For long distance, I don't know that you are going to get a rifle in the $500 range. Caliber matters and the ballistic coefficient just doesn't favor the .308 at extreme long range.

I would highly recommend you spend the time to watch the Sniper 101 videos. There are nearly 100 of them and they cover every aspect of extreme long range shooting. Very early in the series, the author talks about caliber, ballistic coefficient and how to select a caliber for extreme long range shooting. Excellent material.

Richard
 

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I hear that the 6.5 X 284 is an excellent caliber. I'm dying to try it myself. Unfortunately, from the research I've done, it appears that in order to get maximum performance from the cartridge it's recommended that you load them long which requires going to a long action (which I don't presently have one of) and the barrel needs to be chambered for that COL. I see that some short actions are chambering them but I don't think you can load to the Norma specified SAMMI spec COL in a short action.

http://www.6mmbr.com/sixfive284.html
 

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If you want to shoot to 1000 yds, you may want to start by picking a caliber thats balistically suited for that range. Even if you're not in a financial position to build a custom rifle, you're going to do better at 1000 with one of the fast, flat shooting 6/6.5/7 mm's than you will with a .308 gun. lots of good info in this series of articles, regarding caliber/ and optic selection. Of course nothing comes without a price, these calibers are known to wear out your barrel much faster than the slower ones.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/14/rifle-calibers-what-the-pros-use/
That is an great link, I just spent a good 40-minutes reading through all the "What The Pros Use" article links, excellent information!
 

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OK... what is a reasonable distance .308 should reach, launching from a decent bolt gun (off the shelf, not custom) with a 20-24" barrel?
 

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This will be a matter of considerable debate. In my view, somewhere around 800 yards seems about right yet the heavier .308 bullets were used by the military marksmanship units for shooting 1000 yards. But they could get new guns whenever theirs was beat to death.

There are two main factors: First, is the bullet still supersonic at the distance considering all reasonable air densities (altitude and humidity) and, second, how much drift due to wind. Remaining energy may also be a consideration.

Common wisdom for the .308 is to use the 168 gr bullet because it will fly fast enough to stay supersonic. OTOH, it will drop and drift like crazy. The 175 gr bullet has a much better BC but it can't be pushed as fast.

You want a bullet with a high ballistic coefficient (BC). This means it will lose less velocity due to wind drag. You want a reasonably fast bullet so that flight time is reduced such that gravity and wind have less time to work on the bullet.

That's why you see folks slinging 6mm bullets out at 3000 fps or more. That's also why shooting long range with small bullets burns up barrels. Don't count on getting several thousand rounds through a 6mm or 6.5mm barrel.

Seriously, get after the Sniper 101 videos. The author does a great job of discussing this stuff and he's a lot more experienced than I am. Then get a copy of the Sierra software (and their loading manual) and play with the different bullets and velocities. Look at the trajectory tables, look to see if the bullet is still supersonic and look to see how much wind drift there is. This will start to look a lot like the process in the videos.

Richard
 

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I'm a former USMC Scout/Sniper and SWAT Sniper and I own/run a firearms training school (Precision Applications, LLC) where I specialize in Sniper/Precision rifle training.

Personally, I run a bolt action .308 with a 24" readily out to 1450yds regularly with outstanding results. I have no problems at all getting my students repeatable at 1000yds (a bit further for some students) with the .308. Had a student the other day go 8-for-8 at 1000yds with an 18" bolt action .308 and factory Silver State Armory 175grn ammo......they state it's a duplicate M118LR load but I haven't chrono'ed it.

Furthest I've ever actually hit a target at with a .308 was 1607yds, but it was extremely difficult.

The current "record" for a confirmed kill with the 7.62x51mm/.308 is 1360yds by SSGT Jim Gilliland, USA.
 

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I hear that the 6.5 X 284 is an excellent caliber. I'm dying to try it myself. Unfortunately, from the research I've done, it appears that in order to get maximum performance from the cartridge it's recommended that you load them long which requires going to a long action (which I don't presently have one of) and the barrel needs to be chambered for that COL. I see that some short actions are chambering them but I don't think you can load to the Norma specified SAMMI spec COL in a short action.

http://www.6mmbr.com/sixfive284.html
The Savage F-Class is a single shot rifle. OAL can be whatever the shooter wants and the size of the action doesn't really enter into the equation. AFAIK, I can load long enough for the bullet to reach the rifling because I can always tip the round as I chamber it although I don't think it is necessary. I'm waffling because the gun is at the back of the safe and I don't want to unload a bunch of rifles to check for details. I reload the cartridge, the rifle shoots the cartridge, what more do I need to know?

I'm not sure there is a SAAMI standard for 6.5x284 Norma. It certainly isn't in their published specs that are readily available on the Internet. There may be an industry agreement on what used to be a wildcat cartridge but I don't see an ANSI standard. The parent cartridge is a .284 Winchester and that case does have a SAAMI spec. Apparently it uses a short action. It is closer in length to a .308 than it is to a 30-06.

Richard
 
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