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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just in AB962 Is dead. Judge Hamilton over ruled it.
Finally someone in California with some common sense!!!!!!!!

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Official announcement from legal team shortly.


Quote:
I can confirm that AB-962 has been struck down. An official announcement should be forthcoming in minutes from Michel & Associates/CRPA-F.

-Gene

ETA -

COURT GRANTS NRA / CRPA FOUNDATION MOTION, INVALIDATES UNCONSTITUTIONAL AMMUNITION REGULATION STATUTE THAT WOULD HAVE BANNED MAIL ORDER AMMO SALES & REQUIRED AMMO SALES REGISTRATION

In a dramatic ruling giving gun owners a win in an National Rifle Association / California Rifle and Pistol (CRPA) Foundation lawsuit, this morning Fresno Superior Court Judge Jeffrey Hamilton ruled that AB 962, the hotly contested statute that would have banned mail order ammunition sales and required all purchases of so called “handgun ammunition” to be registered, was unconstitutionally vague on its face. The Court enjoined enforcement of the statute, so mail order ammunition sales to California can continue unabated, and ammunition sales need not be registered under the law.

The lawsuit was prompted in part by the many objections and questions raised by confused police, ammunition purchasers, and sellers about what ammunition is covered by the new laws created by AB 962. In a highly unusual move that reflects growing law enforcement opposition to ineffective gun control laws, Tehama County Sheriff Clay Parker is the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit. Other plaintiffs include the CRPA Foundation, Herb Bauer Sporting Goods, ammunition shipper Able’s Ammo, collectible ammunition shipper RTG Sporting Collectibles, and individual Steven Stonecipher. Mendocino Sheriff Tom Allman also supported the lawsuit.

The ruling comes just days before the portion of the law that bans mail order sales of so called “handgun ammunition” was set to take effect on February 1, 2011. The lawsuit, Parker v. California is funded exclusively by the NRA and the CRPA Foundation. If it had gone into effect, AB 962 would have imposed burdensome and ill conceived restrictions on the sales of ammunition. AB 962 required that “handgun ammunition” be stored out of the reach of customers, that ammunition vendors collect ammunition sales registration information and thumb-prints from purchasers, and conduct transactions face-to-face for all deliveries and transfers of “handgun ammunition.” The lawsuit successfully sought the declaration from the Court that the statute was unconstitutional, and successfully sought the injunctive relief prohibiting law enforcement from enforcing the new laws.

The lawsuit alleged, and the Court agreed, that AB 962 is unconstitutionally vague on its face because it fails to provide sufficient legal notice of what ammunition cartridges are “principally for use in a handgun,” and thus is considered “handgun ammunition” that is regulated under AB 962. It is practically impossible, both for those subject to the law and for those who must enforce it, to determine whether any of the thousands of different types of ammunition cartridges that can be used in handguns are actually “principally for use in” or used more often in, a handgun. The proportional usage of any given cartridge is impossible to determine, and in any event changes with market demands. In fact, the legislature itself is well aware of the vagueness problem with AB 962's definition of "handgun ammunition" and tried to redefine it via AB 2358 in 2010. AB 2358 failed in the face of opposition from the NRA and CRPA based on the proposal’s many other nonsensical infringements on ammunition sales to law abiding citizens.

Constitutional vagueness challenges to state laws are extremely difficult to win, particularly in California firearms litigation so this success is particularly noteworthy. Even so, an appeal by the State is likely, but the Court’s Order enjoining enforcement of the law is effective – February 1, 2011 – immediately regardless.

Despite this win for common sense over ill-conceived and counter productive gun laws, additional legislation on this and related subjects will no doubt be proposed in Sacramento this legislative session. It is absolutely critical that those who believe in the right to keep and bear arms stay informed and make their voices heard in Sacramento. When AB 962 passed there was loud outcry from law abiding gun owners impacted by the new law. Those voices must be heard during the legislative session and before a proposed law passes, not after a law is signed. To help, sign up for legislative alerts at www.nraila.com and www.calnra.com and respond when called upon.

Seventeen years ago the NRA and CRPA joined forces to fight local gun bans being written and pushed in California by the gun ban lobby. Their coordinated efforts became the NRA/CRPA "Local Ordinance Project" (LOP) - a statewide campaign to fight ill conceived local efforts at gun control and educate politicians about available programs that are effective in reducing accidents and violence without infringing on the rights of law-abiding gun owners. The NRA/CRPA LOP has had tremendous success in beating back most of these anti-self-defense proposals.

In addition to fighting local gun bans, for decades the NRA has been litigating dozens of cases in California courts to promote the right to self-defense and the 2nd Amendment. In the post Heller and McDonaldlegal environment, NRA and CRPA Foundation have formed the NRA/CRPA Foundation Legal Action Project (LAP), a joint venture to pro-actively strike down ill-conceived gun control laws and ordinances and advance the rights of firearms owners, specifically in California. Sometimes, success is more likely when LAP's litigation efforts are kept low profile, so the details of every lawsuit are not always released. To see a partial list of the LAP’s recent accomplishments, or to contribute to the NRA or to the NRA / CRPAF LAP and support this and similar Second Amendment cases, visit www.nraila.com and www.crpafoundation.org.
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True??

Is this verified???

For sure?????
 

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Awesome. Well done to the NRA, CRPA, and everyone else involved.
FRG1
 

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Once again the country has left it up to California to fight for fair and equitable gun laws for all shooters. We need not worry about our gun rights, California stands at the ready.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Once again the country has left it up to California to fight for fair and equitable gun laws for all shooters. We need not worry about our gun rights, California stands at the ready.
You are kidding right?...We still dont have reg cap magaizes let alone what we have to do to some of our rifles to be legal here...

You have seen me reload my Sage EBR at the range...
 
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Kidding? Maybe, but as a life long Californian it's nice to see that we have people in this state that have a healthy respect for citizens rights. They also have a healthy respect for public safety. We are not in a combat zone so they regulate to keep it from becoming one. However, we are tax paying citizens living in a free state, so they also know where to draw the line regarding infringing on our gun rights. As I read your post I had to think about all the fine people in this state that went to bat for the masses. California, 'land of movie stars and swimming pools'. Thanks for a great and timely post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Kidding? Maybe, but as a life long Californian it's nice to see that we have people in this state that have a healthy respect for citizens rights. They also have a healthy respect for public safety. We are not in a combat zone so they regulate to keep it from becoming one. However, we are tax paying citizens living in a free state, so they also know where to draw the line regarding infringing on our gun rights. As I read your post I had to think about all the fine people in this state that went to bat for the masses. California, 'land of movie stars and swimming pools'. Thanks for a great and timely post.
Good thing I know you and that your being a smart azz...
 

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Wonderful news !!

I just have a creepy suspicion that some appointed federal judge will overrule Judge Hamilton.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think the state just rewords the law and trys again...
 

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This is frickin great news!!!

Though I did just buy 500 rnds of Federal ACP and 100rnds of Speer Gold Dot Hollow Points.... guess I need a Handgun now and something to shoot at.... damn!

I curse you AB962
 

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Once again the country has left it up to California to fight for fair and equitable gun laws for all shooters. We need not worry about our gun rights, California stands at the ready.
You've got to be joking right?

If the rest of us were doing as well as Cali is we would all be wearing Commie Red.

Thankfully we do a better job of electing Reps/Sens that are not COMPLETELY insane.

Sorry but this bill ain't dead....just delayed.....you can count on it going back to the Politburo to be re-written in a manner that the courts won't take issue with.
 

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You've got to be joking right?

If the rest of us were doing as well as Cali is we would all be wearing Commie Red.
That would be a shame. You would look so much better in pink. P_G

Seriously, if you knew how insulting that kind of commentary is to those of us who live in CA and deal with these issues daily you wouldn't be so quick to make snide comments. You see, *I* didn't vote for any of the Legislators who passed that law. Not one. None. Nada. Zip. So point that finger somewhere else, would you? Better yet, how about not pointing at all? It's impolite.

Thankfully we do a better job of electing Reps/Sens that are not COMPLETELY insane.
First, while we certainly have a surplus, CA doesn't have the market cornered on loonie politicians. Remember the Federal AWB? Who elected the politicians that passed it? Did you? Well, it wasn't me! But in spite of not voting for any of those politicians I was still stuck with the law. See how wrong minded that kind of blame game is? We're doing our best out here and it's damned hard to fathom why our brethren in other states are so quick to make negative, small minded statements blaming us for the situation. It's just wrong. So instead of reminding us about how bad we have it (like we don't know) how about a little support and encouragement instead?

Sorry but this bill ain't dead....just delayed.....you can count on it going back to the Politburo to be re-written in a manner that the courts won't take issue with.
You seem to know a lot about CA law and what's going on here. Given that knowledge you probably already know that rewriting the law so it isn't vague would be difficult without including all ammunition and there is no support for that. The law also does not have the support of law enforcement; a sheriff was one of the plaintiffs and others voiced their opposition.

There is a chance the CA AG may appeal the ruling to a higher court, but it is considered unlikely that it would result in a reversal. It is extremely rare for a law to be overturned due to vagueness. When it happens there is usually good reason as was the case with this one.

But let's say that the CA AG does appeal and gets the current decision reversed or that it is rewritten to remove the vagueness. Either of those would revive the two lawsuits already filed against AB 962 that were set aside without prejudice because there had been no actual damages since when they were filed the statute hadn't gone into effect. Both cases are considered to have an excellent chance of being won. So one way or the other AB 962, though still twitching, is all but dead.

There's a lot of good stuff in the works regarding gun laws in the state of California and 2011 is going to be a lot of fun for gun owners here. Stay tuned. And try to remember that we're all on the same side, OK?
 

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Yea, I definately can't do pink.

But seriously, no intention to be overly insulting but lots of states have faced the same legislative attempts to strip us of 2A and most have successfully defeated the same insanity that passes in Kali year after year since the '94 ban.

Heck, Marylandistan has successfully defeated an AWB every year since the early 2000's....they've also managed to defeat every other significant threat proposed in the last 10 years......

During the same period of time Kali has passed:

AR15 laws with those absurd stocks

Requirement for handgun serialization/imprintation of ammo passed.

Mag capacity restricted to 10 iirc...passed in Kali and defeated in most states except NY, Ill, Mass, Md....and none of those states have seen much if any major anti legislation passed

The list goes on and on.

30 short years ago California was at least a Republican state.....now it is the largest single threat to liberty and freedom in terms of representation in the US House of Reps.

So, what is it that 2A supporters in Kali are NOT doing to get the right people elected at Local, State and Fed levels?
 

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Yea, I definately can't do pink.
That's a shame. GI2

But seriously, no intention to be overly insulting but lots of states have faced the same legislative attempts to strip us of 2A and most have successfully defeated the same insanity that passes in Kali year after year since the '94 ban.
Most states aren't as blue as CA. At least we don't have a Carolyn "A Shoulder Thingy That Goes Up" McCarthy...

Still, passing laws does not always have the intended effect. Read on.

Heck, Marylandistan has successfully defeated an AWB every year since the early 2000's....they've also managed to defeat every other significant threat proposed in the last 10 years......
Maryland is considered as one of the top states for bad gun laws. What the hell are you guys doing there? Just kidding.

A lot of states have to beat back laws from overzealous lawmakers intent on saving us from ourselves. Gun owners in California have a heavier load than most, but we're starting to gain ground. Heller and McDonald provided the springboard we needed and there's some good stuff in the pipeline.

During the same period of time Kali has passed:

AR15 laws with those absurd stocks

Requirement for handgun serialization/imprintation of ammo passed.

Mag capacity restricted to 10 iirc...passed in Kali and defeated in most states except NY, Ill, Mass, Md....and none of those states have seen much if any major anti legislation passed
Foolhardy laws? You'll get no disagreement from me, though for the most part all of your examples have become largely inconsequential.

A workaround for the AWB called a Bullet Button was invented and now AR's are a very common sight. The ban also has no effect on a standard issue M14 or any of my other firearms.

The serialization law can't be put into effect, thus it means nothing. It was a waste of paper.

The mag limit law doesn't apply to magazines already in someone's possession when the ban went into effect. I have a number of 20 round M14 magazines. Meh. It's a non-issue. Even better, there's interesting news expected on this soon.

The one law that really gets in the way is the roster of approved firearms. That, too, will soon see it's day in court. For now it can be beat through the exemption for single shot pistols. Block the mag and make it non-removable, put in a temporary long barrel and pretty much any pistol can be configured to qualify. Once the pistol has been transferred to the buyer the original parts can be re-installed and voila! legal non-roster pistol. Again, it's become a non-issue.

We're able to do these things because we have the CGF (Cal Guns Foundation) and CRPRA (California Rifle and Pistol Association) working for us. Along with the NRA and SAF they are slowly but surely restoring our 2A rights. There are some very bright legal minds working on our issues and we're starting to see the fruits of their labors.

The list goes on and on.
Kind of like MA's onerous licensing requirements or ban on silhouette targets? C'mon, on most lists of states with bad gun laws MA is right up there with CA, NY and NJ. Sure, we lead the pack. But at least water pistols are still legal everywhere in the state...

30 short years ago California was at least a Republican state.....now it is the largest single threat to liberty and freedom in terms of representation in the US House of Reps.
I've lived here for 30 years and it's been libby land the whole time. No need to educate me on THAT! Do you know how aggravating it is to NEVER have a candidate in office that you voted for?

But the biggest threat? I reference Congressman McCarthy again along with her brethren Schumer, Lautenberg and Conyers. None of them are from CA and all of them are worse with respect to gun law than any of our representatives.

So, what is it that 2A supporters in Kali are NOT doing to get the right people elected at Local, State and Fed levels?
We're not breeding fast enough. Seriously. We are simply outnumbered by Democrats. It's a true blue state. The good news is that public opinion on gun laws is being swayed in the right direction. The public seems to be catching on that it's all grandstanding and resolves nothing. We're finding ways to stay legal and get what we want. Our associations are fighting for our 2A rights. Things are not as bleak as rumored and it's getting better.

Thanks for the exchange.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You've got to be joking right?

If the rest of us were doing as well as Cali is we would all be wearing Commie Red.

Thankfully we do a better job of electing Reps/Sens that are not COMPLETELY insane.

Sorry but this bill ain't dead....just delayed.....you can count on it going back to the Politburo to be re-written in a manner that the courts won't take issue with.
Actually he was joking...And FPeel said it well...
 

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What on a Shingle?

As a side note, I like that Kamala Harris has now been served. Literally and figuratively. ICONWINK
THAT would take a really big piece of toast! GI6

Best!
 

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Yea, I definately can't do pink.

But seriously, no intention to be overly insulting but lots of states have faced the same legislative attempts to strip us of 2A and most have successfully defeated the same insanity that passes in Kali year after year since the '94 ban.

Heck, Marylandistan has successfully defeated an AWB every year since the early 2000's....they've also managed to defeat every other significant threat proposed in the last 10 years......

During the same period of time Kali has passed:

AR15 laws with those absurd stocks

Requirement for handgun serialization/imprintation of ammo passed.

Mag capacity restricted to 10 iirc...passed in Kali and defeated in most states except NY, Ill, Mass, Md....and none of those states have seen much if any major anti legislation passed

The list goes on and on.

30 short years ago California was at least a Republican state.....now it is the largest single threat to liberty and freedom in terms of representation in the US House of Reps.

So, what is it that 2A supporters in Kali are NOT doing to get the right people elected at Local, State and Fed levels?
The great weather drew in all those damn commie dems here...
 
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