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Well, it's been over a year since I shot 600+ and that was at the gathering of guns in K-Falls. I needed to test a load (thanks Wolley!) for 600 to make sure my sights were dialed in.

Again, I showed up with a cheap yoga mat and that's about it. No shooting jacket or glove; just a collared shirt and my cotton web sling. It was about 90 degrees. I would like to have done better, but I think it was a good learning/refresher session. My first shot was in the 10-ring, 6 o'clock. Second shot; 8-ring, 6 o'clock. I only scored two X's out of all 20 rounds and somehow had 2 misses! Even with the two misses, I scored 162-2X out of 200.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how I had 2 misses! I did have a couple of things that made for a non-ideal range session though. There was some sort of bench rest competition going on and every 100yds they had these metal plates, about 10 inches long or so, that were colored green on one side and orange on the other. They would swing with the wind. One of these targets. There were streamers on the ends of them.

One of these wind plates was directly in line with my target and it clipped the lower 1/3rd of the target from my view, unless the wind was blowing right at me, in which case, the plate disappeared. We were already delayed and there were about 12 shooters in my relay. I was the only service rifle/iron sight shooter who showed up. Not wanting to be a whiney-vaginey, I just dealt with it.

Here were my scores: 10,8,X,8,9,X,10,8,10,Miss,Miss,8,9,8,10,8,9,9,9,9. Group sizes of the 18 holes was about 20 inches. I made two small sight adjustments of .5 MOA each for a total of just one MOA



I'm happy with the load and as long as I don't score any misses during my match, I should be okay. I think I need to concentrate more on consistent head position.

It was fun!

Tony.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's awesome Tony! Where did you find a spot around these parts to shoot 600yds?
Thanks! Tri-County does it every Tuesday night, even in the winter. They've got powerful flood lights that light the target up. Range goes cold at 9PM regardless of light or dark. My competition is at Douglas Ridge in Estacada. They have a 1,000 yard line but it's not open every day.

Tony.
 

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Nice!
 
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Not to bore you with theory but it is said that one shoots in "cones,"** one outer and one inner. It would appear from your target that your outer cone is the 8 ring and inner would be 9-10 ring. Looking at your shot placement vertical spread is more prominent than right/left and that would indicate to me that your sling adjustment needs attention.
Technique often used in determining if sling/cheek weld is right for you is to get into prone position, sling up, sight at target, then place trigger hand on ground and see if rifle moves significantly off target. Some will say(old hardcore GI shooters) that sling has to be so tight that it hurts, not so. For extended time as in 600yd slow fire you have to have the sling tight enough but you have to be comfortable over a 30 minute time frame or your scores will not be good. First few shots will most likely be where you want them but fatigue sets in and shots start wondering. It would appear that your second half of the total is where your fatigue set in?? If you were taking the rifle butt down from your shoulder between each shot, that is a detriment to good scores for each time you mount the rifle it's like 20 separate matches. Some can do it and be OK, but would suggest trying to keep the butt on the shoulder as much as possible. Were you catching your breath for each shot?? If so would suggest no longer than 5 seconds, prefer less for vision starts to go even with "young eyes." You have plenty of time and if the sight picture does not look good, don't shoot. Blink the eyes, look away from target, and this helps avoid "target fixation." I certainly don't mean to be preaching to you, just passing on thoughts given to me long time ago by excellent long range shooters. As for you being the only one using issue sights, the others just have not caught up with you yet and in time the 600yd target can be cleaned on a regular basis then you will known as a "hard holder."

** Think of Dixie Cup with small end your muzzle and large opening your shot pattern.
Some shooters are known as "hard holders" meaning that their large cone pattern is at the outside the 9 ring and inner is 10/X ring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Not to bore you with theory but it is said that one shoots in "cones,"** one outer and one inner. It would appear from your target that your outer cone is the 8 ring and inner would be 9-10 ring. Looking at your shot placement vertical spread is more prominent than right/left and that would indicate to me that your sling adjustment needs attention.
Technique often used in determining if sling/cheek weld is right for you is to get into prone position, sling up, sight at target, then place trigger hand on ground and see if rifle moves significantly off target. Some will say(old hardcore GI shooters) that sling has to be so tight that it hurts, not so. For extended time as in 600yd slow fire you have to have the sling tight enough but you have to be comfortable over a 30 minute time frame or your scores will not be good. First few shots will most likely be where you want them but fatigue sets in and shots start wondering. It would appear that your second half of the total is where your fatigue set in?? If you were taking the rifle butt down from your shoulder between each shot, that is a detriment to good scores for each time you mount the rifle it's like 20 separate matches. Some can do it and be OK, but would suggest trying to keep the butt on the shoulder as much as possible. Were you catching your breath for each shot?? If so would suggest no longer than 5 seconds, prefer less for vision starts to go even with "young eyes." You have plenty of time and if the sight picture does not look good, don't shoot. Blink the eyes, look away from target, and this helps avoid "target fixation." I certainly don't mean to be preaching to you, just passing on thoughts given to me long time ago by excellent long range shooters. As for you being the only one using issue sights, the others just have not caught up with you yet and in time the 600yd target can be cleaned on a regular basis then you will known as a "hard holder."

** Think of Dixie Cup with small end your muzzle and large opening your shot pattern.
Some shooters are known as "hard holders" meaning that their large cone pattern is at the outside the 9 ring and inner is 10/X ring.
Pearls of wisdom! Thank you! I have a very cheap spotting scope on a very small tripod (ideal for setting up on a bench) and the disks they were using to spot were small spotters, maybe 3" wide. I had to break position every shot, lean over, peek through the scope, score, then get back into position. I also was talking to Phil McGrath before and after the shoot about the height of my position. My magazine is about 4" off the deck when I'm in position.

I was getting fatigued about half way trough the string and that's when I got my misses. About half way through, I also tried getting lower, which is completely new to me and very uncomfortable. And again, with no jacket, keeping the stock in the shoulder took some effort and it showed on the paper. One thing I know for sure, which Phil keyed me in on after I shot, was the fact that I can't remember focusing on my head placement from shot to shot.

I might also benefit from a good trigger job and a Shooting Sight hammer.

Again, lots of variables, but practice and good discussion here should help me reduce those variables. I've spent a good amount of time trying to get my rifle up to par, and now it's time to work on the nut behind the stock.

Tony.
 

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TB,

One of the effective ways to improve your 600 yard score is to train on that reduced target or even on the SR target at 200. You will learn a lot about shot execution shooting on reduced targets. The objective in training on the SR target prone slow fire at 200 is to shoot for Xs on that 3 inch X ring and call your shots. Of course, you have to shoot clean on that 7 inch circle.

Once you master the shot execution on that short range target, shooting at 600 you will become a better wind reader based on the target feedback to you and prediction. Out at 600 there should be no question about shot execution, it should be a given that you will break a good shot and be able to call its POI, the stuff learned shooting at short range. If the shot is other than called, then the environment dealt you one, thus the learning of the wind. It is hard to make corrections for shots outside the 10 ring if you can't execute a good shot and call it.

Is it you or is the wind that put you out?

Lots of people get all wrapped around the axle because they do not have access to 600 yards, but we found out among the HM shooters in our club, our scores on that reduced 600 to 200 is pretty close to the scores we shoot at the full range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Nez,

You know, it may very well have been the wind that gave me the misses. Shamefully, I never once paid any attention to the wind. The range we shoot at has nice berms on both sides which typically causes a nice large shooting lane, but the wind can kick up at times and make it over the berms.

Thanks,
Tony.
 

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Rule of thumb, if the wind was at 10mph, full value, either from 9 o'clock/3 o'clock your drift would be on the order of 6moa/36". Range x Value(of wind)/1000= 6moa is basic formula for wind calculation. ( 600yds x 10mph=6000/1000=6moa adjustment)
You would notice 10mph wind but trick is to determine direction correctly for that changes amount of adjustment to apply. If I can't determine good direction, I will take half of the answer given by the formula to see if I can get on the target. Only a rough estimate, but usually works OK. Just a suggestion. Not to be harsh, but it was not the wind, but the trigger puller I fear. Hey, if was easy everybody would do it.
 

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Lots of people get all wrapped around the axle because they do not have access to 600 yards, but we found out among the HM shooters in our club, our scores on that reduced 600 to 200 is pretty close to the scores we shoot at the full range.
I'm new to Service Rifle with this being my first season so I'm no expert on the subject. Last month at a 200 yd reduced HP match one of the HM shooters was telling me that in his opinion, the 200 reduced 600 target is harder than the 600 target. I've seem to overhear the same thing at other matches too.
 

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Thanks for this post Tony. All of this wisdom coming together in one place could not be better timed. I have been practicing at 500 and very soon will go to the range and try 600 for the first time. I'm fairly consistent at 500 but don't know what may happen at 600. We shall see.
Thank you to all the more experienced shooters for helping the way you guys do.
 

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Can't wait to hear how your match goes! I have never fired at anything for score past 300m. (there was a range, when I still wore the uniform.....convoy live fire training. Around 600m from the back of a slow moving HMMWV...but that was just for giggles, because they said we couldn't do it. GI1 )

Sadly I'm sitting out the 500yrd belly match this weekend. Can't bring myself to do it with a rifle that may or may not have issues. GI4

Im sure you'll do well, and I look forward to the range report.
 

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"One of these wind plates was directly in line with my target and it clipped the lower 1/3rd of the target from my view..."

That would cost me my 6 o'clock sight picture; I wouldn't be able to shoot that way. My brain automatically centers the bull horizontally for me when I shoot 6 o'clock, but does not center automatically vertically when shooting 3 or 9 o'clock. When I shoot center bull, I find myself chasing the bull and my shots wander accordingly.

Still, that's some good shooting.
 

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Tony, thanks for posting. lot's of good info here, yours included.

FWIW, the HM where I shoot say the same thing about shooting reduced targets at 100 and 200 yds.

This is my first season so I've got a ways to go. I've not even shot anything past 200, still working on the "shot execution", maybe next year.
 
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