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Discussion Starter #1
I have recently received my CCW permit here in IA. I am doing some research on what pistol to purchase for my primary ccw. Until I come to that decision I am using the pistols I already have, including my Springfield XD .45acp. I was looking into getting some quality HP rounds for it. The options are as follows:
1) Hornady XTP in either 185 or 200 gr.
2) Hornady Critical Defense in 185gr.
3) Remington Golden Sabre in 230 gr.

Any input would be appreciated. The cost is all about the same for each type. The Remington rounds are 25/box vs. 20/box with the Hornady. Thanks
 

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I use, and have used Winchester Ranger T+P in the 230gr offering. It is hard hitting, feeds exceptionall well and opens up like a propeller. (This is the much vaunted Black Talon without the black...)

You can find it for 28-30 bucks in LE packaging in 50ct boxes.

Given your choices I would use the 200gr Hornady. I do not like the Golden Saber, but that is just me and is based on my personal observations. I'm not saying it is bad ammo, just not MY choice. Heak, folks will probably tell you the same about the Winny ammo.GI2
 

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.45 acp

I'm a WW Ranger T fan myself. I shoot the non +P 230 gr. As a bonus, it feeds well and is the most accurate factory ammo my Les Baer eat's. It's $31.95 for a box of 50 at SG ammo right now. http://www.sgammo.com/
 

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The absolute best expander is Speer Gold Dot. We 'casually' tested some in a friends compact Kahr .45. They all opened up to 60 caliber or better out of a 2-1/2 barrel.
 

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The absolute best expander is Speer Gold Dot. We 'casually' tested some in a friends compact Kahr .45. They all opened up to 60 caliber or better out of a 2-1/2 barrel.
I would recommend the Gold Dots, too, that's what I choose to carry in my Kimber (Gold Dot Short Barrels, for my 4") but I carried XTP's prior, the 200grn'ers... you are carrying a .45, the bigger the better!
 

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Federal Hydra Shok 230 grn standard velocity. Show me a .45 that doesn't like this stuff and shoot it well, and I'll show you a defective pistol. Good luck and good shooting!

Doug
 

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Whatever brand you choose get your bullet weight up as close as possible to 230 grains. That combination of weight and diameter has been proven for a long time.
 

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When I had jobs that required the carry of a pistol I loaded with Hydra shock 230 Gr +P.

I did however load the first couple rounds with EXTREAM SHOCK rounds. They are expensive and the traditional folks will rant about "frangible" ammo, It's not frangible but they will rant anyways.

The ballistics gel tests will explain why I load up with these rounds. The most devastation I've ever seen from a handgun.
Its what the sky marshals use.......
 

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remington golden saber 230gr in 45ACP and gold dot
you cant go wrong with these but whatever you choose go with the 230 gr or more
i like hornady bullets and ammo but there defense rounds is to light
 

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Federal HST in both .45 and 9mm here, .45's in my S&W 4556 TSW, 9's in the XDm, which ever round you choose in .45 always try them out, fire a couple rounds, don't be like some who just buy some ammo, load up the pistol and never fired any, if your life or others depend on it, try it out first, just my $2 worth (adjusted for inflation)

-Rock
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the thoughts.

After careful consideration I opted for the 200gr. Hornady xtp. Going to run it through my XD & if for whatever reason they don't run well I will look into some of the rounds suggested. Thanks everyone.
~Cheers
 

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The absolute best expander is Speer Gold Dot. We 'casually' tested some in a friends compact Kahr .45. They all opened up to 60 caliber or better out of a 2-1/2 barrel.
True, it is the very best expander. Sometimes expansion is not that great....I have seen the GDs fail miserably on vehicles and windshields. In fact a lot of them do it.

If it were up to me and the lawyers never involved themselves, I'd carry 200gr lead semi wadcutters. Best wound channel in the biz, adequate penetration and superbly accurate. Kind of an Elmer Keith load for an automatic.....

.... But the American public needs a fancy box with chrome plated gold encrusted flying ash tray round that turns into oversize Japanese orgami upon impact and has a solid and expensive marketing campaign, because if you can't trust the marketing dept, who can you trust? Blocks of jelly don't lie either...LOL
 

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True, it is the very best expander. Sometimes expansion is not that great....I have seen the GDs fail miserably on vehicles and windshields. In fact a lot of them do it.

If it were up to me and the lawyers never involved themselves, I'd carry 200gr lead semi wadcutters. Best wound channel in the biz, adequate penetration and superbly accurate. Kind of an Elmer Keith load for an automatic.....

.... But the American public needs a fancy box with chrome plated gold encrusted flying ash tray round that turns into oversize Japanese orgami upon impact and has a solid and expensive marketing campaign, because if you can't trust the marketing dept, who can you trust? Blocks of jelly don't lie either...LOL
No offense, but I wouldn't recommend cast bullets for self defense. Too much penetration could result in a problem depending on whom or what's behind the assailant.

If you're shooting through car windshields or car bodies, chances are that you're not in imminent danger and it may not be considered self defense, unless someone is trying to run you down. Which would be a fairly rare instance.

Just my 2 cents worth...
 

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No matter what round or brand you choose if you are going to use it for SD make sure you fire at least 50 to 100 rounds (preferably 100) of it through your gun to make absolutely sure it will feed. Some guns don't like certain JHP configurations.
 

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Taken from M4 forum:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

This info is provided by Dr. Gary Roberts who has done ballistic testing for many alphabet soup agencies and large police departments.

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 105 & 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Partition Gold 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 160 & 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)





FWIW, I shoot .45 acp Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1) in my 1911 and M&P and shoot 9mm Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP in my M&P
 

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I use, and have used Winchester Ranger T+P in the 230gr offering. It is hard hitting, feeds exceptionall well and opens up like a propeller. (This is the much vaunted Black Talon without the black...)

You can find it for 28-30 bucks in LE packaging in 50ct boxes.

Given your choices I would use the 200gr Hornady. I do not like the Golden Saber, but that is just me and is based on my personal observations. I'm not saying it is bad ammo, just not MY choice. Heak, folks will probably tell you the same about the Winny ammo.GI2
What he said.
 

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There's a study floating around somewhere on teh interwebs that gives data from real world shootouts. The Hydra Shock 230gr had the highest ratio of first shot stops of anything in 45acp, IIRC it was in the high 80s/low 90s.

I'm not sure how scientific the data is, as the sample group was small (100ish incidents with the above ammo), and I don't know how much popularity played into the findings, IOW, some ammo just didn't show up in the test b/c no one got shot with it, and a lot of newer ammo wasn't even on the market yet.

Plus I don't think they had a correction for cracked up bodybuilder vs 90 pound wimp.GI6
 
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