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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
happy 4th july! does anyone make a full length dedicated .22 upper w/ triangular handgards that looks just like my sp1 upper? i would love to have one, but don't want a drop in conversion. thanks!
andy
 

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Interesting question and since I too have an SP-1 I will wait and see what turns up????

You've just got to love those old AR's. I much prefer them to this new junk they're turning out these days, with everything hanging off of them, including curb feelers...

7th
 

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When you have a hard time keeping the bullets in a pie plate at fifty feet -
May as well be shooting blanks . . .
That's been my experiencewith the adaptors. We quit using them. The 'lead' (the distance from resting bullet to rifling) is so great that the poor bullet smashes headlong into the throat, gets twisted (not in a good way) and comes out the muzzle one terribly confused piece of lead, badly in need of counseling. And they always seem to go toward the 'left'. lol.
 

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I have no experience other than with the Cieners, but I have owned half a dozen of those, worked on as many more, seen as many more shooting, and one and all grouped 2" or better from 50 yds. You must be dealing with some junk, or some other problem exists. The bullets would have to be bent out of the casings to group as badly as you claim. If the bullet goes down the bore undamaged, it HAS to group much better than that.
 

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If your happy with the accuracy of your ceiner kit that's all that matters. There's a whole other level of accuracy with a dedicated upper. Andy it would be cheaper to build it yourself. Buy the barrel and converted m261 assembly from CLE. Only because its a retro build and they focus more on Service and match/varmint style 22 uppers. Mine cost about 1200 with a Kreiger 1-16 SS barrel. Will shoot quarter sized groups at 100 yards with quality (eley rws ) ammo.

Tom
 

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that level of accuracy, in a .22, has no practical use, since you can't demonstrate it without a bench rest, and no animal takable with the .22lr requires such accuracy. the match ammo in .22 has very, very little power, and it is very prone to being blown off the mark at a mere 50 yds, by a very mild breeze, too. If you misjudge the range by a mere 10 yds, at 40 or more yds, you will miss by a more than the diff between a 1 MOA and 2 moa .22 unit. :)
 

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exist,

We weren't talking about hunting and I don't think anybody has any problems with a conversion, they do what they were designed to do. You stated you've no experience with a dedicated upper, I have extensive experience. Those sized groups (10 ring on an NRA regulation smallbore target) at 50 or 100 yards are regularly attainable from prone with iron sights, no scope or tacitcool red dot using a sling the way a service rifle is supposed to be shot. They shoot at 100 yards about as well as shooting an 80grain Matchking at 600 yards. (Most of us think it better replicates shooting at 1000 yards) because any error in sight alignment, trigger control, position inconsistancy or missed wind call and you're out. If you have a good hold and can read wind changes and dope as required you'll put them in the middle, it pays to know your zeroes. So I'd say it has great practical value as a more economical way to supplement your training for marksmanship in general and Highpower Rifle competition in particular. Oh, and nothing's more fun and challenging to shoot than an extremely accurate 22 long rifle. Some of us use them in the winter and shoot 50ft indoor smallbore leagues with them. The accuracy potential is there with the dedicated system, why short change yourself? You use your example, wouldn't you want to use the most accurate rifle possible to guarantee precise shot placement and a humane kill on a game animal? If you can't correlate your shot call with impact on target whether it be a bullseye, tin can, a squirrel, what's the point? Back to Andy's original post, hope that information helped, if you've any other questions fire away. Frank White at CLE is an excellent gunsmith (I'm a happy customer) and can more than likely build whatever you want. It will be accurate, reliable and give you years of enjoyment.

Tom
 

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Greetings,

To the OP, good luck finding exactly what you're looking for, sounds like a pretty cool project. Sorry I don't have any further tips for you though.

Regarding some of the other discussion, I believe the dedicated uppers' generally better accuracy is due to the slower twist rate used for the .22LR. The .223/5.56 is much too fast (with the exception of the early 1:12, 14 barrels) at 1:7,8. That was the primary reason I went with a dedicated upper when I built mine.

I really don't see all that much utility in "hot swapping" ammo through a single upper, but whatever makes you happy!

Regards, Jim
 

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I have no experience with any .22 unit but the Ciener, but i have owned 1/2 dozen of the Cieners and have personal experience with about that many others, owned by friends. None of them group worse than 2" at 50 yds. Frankly, I don't see how anything that fit in the barrel could group worse than 6" at 50 yds. It would have to be keyholing to group that poorly at 50 ft.
 

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I have no experience with any .22 unit but the Ciener, but i have owned 1/2 dozen of the Cieners and have personal experience with about that many others, owned by friends. None of them group worse than 2" at 50 yds. Frankly, I don't see how anything that fit in the barrel could group worse than 6" at 50 yds. It would have to be keyholing to group that poorly at 50 ft.
I would have kept my conversion kits if they were this accurate. Mine usually shot about 4"-5" at 25 yards with several kinds of .22 lr ammunition. I sold the conversion kits and purchased a Tactical Solutions upper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
.22 upper

thanks for all the input, on both sides. after extensive research on my part i have decided that i can't, or at least am unwilling to spend that kinda $ on a .22 upper. for the money what i want costs i have accumulated enough parts to build another m14, so that's my direction at present. thanks again.
andy
 

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I went the same route with a surplus upper and CMMG conversion kit. So far it has been 100% reliable but less accurate than my Sig 522 or H&K MP-5 .22 rifles. I figure that has more to do with the amount of freebore and slightly tighter 1:12 twist rather than a 1:16 that is more common to a true .22LR rifle. However, it is a great little rifle for informal plinking and varmint blasting. So on to the pics.DI2

Which one is the 5.56mm 604 AR-15 and which one is the .22 conversion?





Let's open the ejection port cover and see if this makes it easier to spot the conversion.





OK, let's stick in the magazine and see if this makes things pretty clear as to which one is the conversion. Tip: look at the screws on the magazine that holds the halves together.





So that kind of demonstrates that if you really want to, it can be pretty tough to pick out the 5.56mm rifle from the conversion. That was the big thing I was going for here since I do have a severe case of RBRD.DI2 Now the big problem I see with conversions is the problem of blowing back dirty .22LR fouling back into the receiver making things even dirtier than they need to be. One solution would be to leave out the gas tube but if you do this, first, the handguards can rotate on the front flange since it is the gas tube that keeps the front flange in the correct orientation. The other problem is that the hole in the barrel to work with the original gas system is still there and if left unplugged, can vent gas back along the barrel again making things dirtier than they have to be. My solution to both of these problems was to cut down a scrap gas tube and insert it upside down into the front sight assembly. This solved the problem of keeping the handguard flange in the correct orientation as well as preventing any gas from blowing back out of the gas tube hole. Here's a pic of what it looks like:


All-in-all, I am pretty happy with the way things turned out and even though it's not a "tack driver", it accuracy is acceptable and the reliability has been excellent as well.
 

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My first AR was a Fulton Armory M16A1 clone, which I subsequently converted to .22. Like the other conversion mentioned above, it's reliable, but not as accurate as my other .22s (CZ-452 and accurized 10/22s).

I really like the Compass Lake idea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
.22 upper

ok lets shift gears. i see people in shotgun news that have barrel re-lining services. what would happen if you took the m16 barrel & had a .22 rimfire liner installed. the liner could be as far rearward as needed so the bullet wouldn't have to make that "jump". the liner would also block off the gas port. the rate of twist could be optimum for a .22 also. am i mad? does this sound like it would work? i am always trying to re-invent the wheel. and i haven't even had the 1st beer tonight.
andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
ok i have decided that this is a doable project. now, what conversion do yall recomend? i have found everything from factory reconditioned cmmg for $103 (no warranty) to genuine colt at $200 and u.s. army & airforce for about same price. the us army kit has an extractor & uses mag inserts which suits me fine since i plane on using 20 round mags anyway. they claim the g.i. units are rifled in the jump area. the barrel is sleeve able to .223 & 1 in 16 twist for around $160 parts & labor. brownells sells the tools to do it in a vice with a hand drill. let me know what yall think. thanks
andy
 
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