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Discussion Starter #1
Hello fellow hole makers.
I a possible deal for some(1000) 190 grain bullets. I dont see many people metioning them, are they just too heavy for the M1A?
 

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Way to heavy for the M14. They will wreck it.
Use nothing heavier then 175 Grains.
 
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If you didn't shoot that many, you'd probably be okay, but 190s are heavier than what's recommended. 175 to 180 are about the heaviest you want to shoot on a regular basis out of an M14 clone. Given that you are looking at 1k of them, I would probably pass.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
thanks guys, thats what i thought but need to confirm. thanks again
 

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Out of curiosity, what's the limiting factor on hot loads? Are we concerned bending the op rod? Damaging the bolt lugs?

Also, is the 175 grain limit just for the SAI rifles or do they also apply to rifles built from forged / USGI parts?
 

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Pressure wise you can make them work but I have no idea if they are accurate in the M1A rifle. Remember, the rifle was never built for those kinds of recoil energies, it was originally designed for a 145 - 155 grain bullet. My guess is that you couldn't achieve optimum performance in the M1A without beating the rifle's parts pretty hard. My fear is that the op rod spring and op rod couldn't handle the recoil energy and the bolt would slam in to the rear of the receiver eventually causing the receiver metal to fatigue and come apart catastrophically.
 

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Hello fellow hole makers.
I a possible deal for some(1000) 190 grain bullets. I dont see many people metioning them, are they just too heavy for the M1A?
I'd buy them if they were a good deal (25cents or less for SMK), with a vented plug you can run them otherwise just hang on to them for bolt gun 308 or 300 win mag loads. People used to run them all the time with lighter 4064 charges like 41 grains in mil brass BTW.
 

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I thought the limiting factor was port pressure and dwell time?

Couldn't you use a faster powder to drop the port pressure? (less powder/gas for a given peak pressure)

Yes, there will be a velocity loss but the projectiles will still be usable, correct?
 

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The USMC used the 190 gr SMK in the late 1960s for long range (600-1000 yds), albeit in their M14s. The USAF also used the 190 SMK in their 7.62mm Garand rifles. Also for long range handloads.

I believe the bullet they used is the same as today's #2210 but I'm not certain of that.

Ray
 

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I thought the limiting factor was port pressure and dwell time?

Couldn't you use a faster powder to drop the port pressure? (less powder/gas for a given peak pressure)

Yes, there will be a velocity loss but the projectiles will still be usable, correct?
Perhaps. Like I said a vented gas plug will slow down the action considerably, less felt recoil too. I was throwing 175gr bullets well over 2700fps with 2000MR and a vented gas plug and the recoil was minor, like 150gr ball ammo maybe. I see no reason why with a vented plug a 190 going say 2500fps would hurt anything.

But again this is all hypothetical. The true test is to go shoot say 1000 of them and report back.
 

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The USMC used the 190 gr SMK in the late 1960s for long range (600-1000 yds), albeit in their M14s. The USAF also used the 190 SMK in their 7.62mm Garand rifles. Also for long range handloads.

I believe the bullet they used is the same as today's #2210 but I'm not certain of that.

Ray
This is true, loaded with 4064 I believe. The load was so hot the brass was no good after, and the gas plug was bored out to keep dcm legal as shutting off the cylinder is against the rules. It did not damage the rifles in any way
 

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The USMC used the 190 gr SMK in the late 1960s for long range (600-1000 yds), albeit in their M14s. The USAF also used the 190 SMK in their 7.62mm Garand rifles. Also for long range handloads.

I believe the bullet they used is the same as today's #2210 but I'm not certain of that.

Ray
Looks like we have an answer. Reloading properly can solve any perceived issues.

JWB
 

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Why go to such trouble when you have the wrong twist and the 168s and 175s shoot so well.
 

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I know this post will get lots of hate, this is what i had going. With an adjustable gas plug I was starting load development with the 208 amax, I didn't get to finish before I left the states when I get back I will get back with it. You could try some re17 with the heavier rounds, in a 308. I was able to get my action to cycle after I adjusted the gas plug. Why not use the 185 burger? I was able to get decent results with the re17/208 combo, but I didn't get to really tighten it up like I wanted. I was getting around 2420 ish muzzle velocity and the load was compressed using lc lr brass, with no pressure signs. I'm gonna switch to some roomier win brass I have and try that. 2000mr is the powder I want to try with the heavies, being that It is ball powder and shouldn't be compressed. I think I have about 600 208 amaxs left and once I get back and finalize my load I will send those down range to get
Some long term data.
 

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Why go to such trouble when you have the wrong twist and the 168s and 175s shoot so well.
Wind, the 168 is not that great for 600, and defiantly not 1k. The 175 is good but the 190 was thought to be the bullet back then cause heavier is better right? Notice they don't shoot that anymore,
 

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Long before there was vented gas pugs and magic rifle voodoo, Don "MAC" McCoy and the Navy team used the 190 SMK under 44.0gr of IMR4320 in a LC case COAL 2.90 in 7.62mm converted Garand's.

This load was used at both 600/1000 by the Navy Team, I personally have used this same load data at the same distances in my double lugged M1A using a TiN grooved piston. Yes it worked well, however today I would use the same load data under a 185 Berger Hy-brid.

If I told you what Don's long range M1 30.06 load data was you might think he was insane, but in fact it works very well.
 

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Are those heavy bullets going to be stable past 800/1000 with an m1a Barrell twist?
 

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1/10 would be ideal but They seem to work well in bolt guns with a 1/11 twist, some guys have shot them with a 1/12. There is a really long thread on snipers hide about the 208/re17 combo. I think it's under the range report sub forum. I was hoping to get somewhere around 2450 with good accuracy, I think I was close. Not a lot of recoil either more of a push than a snap.

Here is the thread
http://forum.snipershide.com/range-report-exterior-ballistics/24338-308-win-208-amax-rl17.html
 
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