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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
During my brief survey of M1A ammo, I found M118LR. Some reviews are quite favorable, while others are quite derogatory. Assuming that both are correct, when was the transition from good to bad?

I picked up a small quantity recently, and won't have the opportunity to test for awhile. The headstamp on mine reads "LC 05 LR". Please tell me, what can I expect from this ammo?

Many threads discussed the availability for this ammo, coupled with various recipes to reproduce it. I would enjoy hearing about your own experiences, as I am gearing up to reload .308Win for the first time (with decades of other reloading experience).

Thanks,
-Kirk
 

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When I was shooting the M1A across the course I came into about 2k of M118LR. Great stuff, I came to think of it as 1moa ammo out of my rifle at 600yds. Now that doesn't mean I shot 200-20x, but if I did my part it would do very well at 600. Never shot it at 1k tho.

BTW its great brass for reloading. Other than the knerled match brass the LR brass is the only LC 7.62 brass I know of without a crimp. So you get to skip the swaging part of brass prep.
 

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The M118LR is the current US Standard Competition/Sniper/Tactical round as made by Lake City. The changes that were made all took place right around the turn of the Century so it's performance has been consistent over the past 10 years, at least.

I think you'll find that shooters who do good with it think it is great. Shooters who don't do well, think it is junk. No surprise there.

alsation - The original M118 Match that was the Match standard from 1961 to 1982 also used the brass with un-crimped primers.
 

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I lost all of my rifles & handguns in a mishap on Rio Grande when the barge hit a sandbar and sank.
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The lost art of research has not been missed place yet....

M118LR 05: good or bad?
Thanks, -Kirk
This is a listing of most of the Lake City I have fired and tested over the years. I have never found any Lake City that had not been manufactured correctly.

Lake City, '58,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '63,[ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. year
Lake City, '64,[ LC MATCH], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 118
Lake City, '65,[ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with purple primer sealant. MATCH FA year M 118
Lake City, '66,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with purple primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '66,[ LC MATCH], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 118
Lake City, '70,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with light red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '70,[ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with green primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 118
Lake City, '71,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '81,[ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with purple primer sealant. year
Lake City, '82, [ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '84,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '85, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. year
Lake City, '86, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 852
Lake City, '87,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '88, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. year NATO (+) M 118 SB
Lake City, '88, [ LC Match ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. MATCH LC year M 852
Lake City, '89,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '90,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '91,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '91,[ LC MATCH], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant.
Lake City, '94,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '95,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '98,[ LC ], Boxer, ring crimp with red primer sealant. NATO (+)
Lake City, '03,[ LC LR ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. LR 03 LC
Lake City, '04,[ LC LR ], Boxer, zero crimp with red primer sealant. LR 04 LC

http://m14forum.com/ammunition/23464-mil-surplus-ammunition-manufactures-7-62x51mm.html

My best scores with military surplus ammunition with my NM Springfield rifle.

1, M852 Lake City from 1991. Top score of 200-20X, on a SR-1 NRA standard 100 yard target, 1-20 round mag only with my NM M1A.
2, Argentine FLB, surplus from 1983, 200-16X.
3, M118LR Lake City from 2003, 200-13X.
4, German DAG, surplus from 1993, 200-12X.
5, M118SB Lake City from 1963, 200-10X.
6, M852 Lake City from 1988, 200-10X.
7, Radway Green surplus from 1990, 200-10X.
8, Greek surplus from 1980, 200-10X.
9, Australian MF surplus from 1966, 200-6X.
10, M118SB Lake City from 1985, a 199-12X.
11, Nigerian from 1970, 199-10X.
12, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1979, a 199-10X.
13, Radway Green surplus from 1985, 198-12X.​
14, Belgium surplus from 1977, 198-10X.
15, Bosnian surplus from 2003, 198-10X.
16, Radway Green surplus from 1995, 198-8X
17, South African surplus from 1980, 198-6X.
18, Santa Barbra surplus from 1980, 197-14X.
19, Argentine surplus from 1983, 197-8X.
20, German DAG, surplus from 1976, 197-8X.
21, Austria surplus from 1980, 197-6X.
22, German MEN 41, surplus from 1969, 197-6X.
23, Singapore surplus from 1986, 196-11X.
24, Israeli surplus from 1974, 196-10X.
25, Australian ADI surplus from 1988, 196-8X.
26, Bosnian M118 surplus from 2003, 196-8X.
27, Serbia surplus from 2002, 196-6X.
28, Malaysian surplus from 1982, 195-6X.
29, Malaysian surplus from 1983, 194-9X.
30, Lithuanian surplus from 2003, 194-6X.
31, Serbia surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
32, Venezuelan surplus from 1989, 194-2X.
33, Denmark, surplus from 1993, 193-2X.
34, Canadian, surplus from 1970, 192-8X.
35, Chilean, surplus from 1976, 191-4X.
36, Indonesian surplus from 1985, 190-6X
37, Portuguese m/963 surplus from 1978, 190-4X.
38, Austria surplus from 1978, 190-3X.
39, South African surplus from 1981, 189-1X.
40, Pakistan surplus from 1979. Score of 188-4X.
 
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If you got the ammo for a good deal, it's great stuff.

I can't get LC LR or clone loads to shoot as-good-as or better then a 168 HPBT at 600 yards. I'm still messing around with this load and hope to get it right some day. My current prep is;

LC LR brass, federal primers, 43.1 of RL15, 175 SMK, OAL mag length.
 

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Just reloaded 60 pieces of the brass. Case length 2.005 overall length 2.80, 175 gr SMK's 41.5 gr IMR-4895 case HS vary from 4-6 thousandths short of my chamber HS, CCI#34 primers. Think this is a pretty standard starting point. I will be shooting them out of a SM with a Krieger 1/10 rot bbl. up until now I've been shooting black hills 175 match, hoping for the same if not better results.
 

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If you got the ammo for a good deal, it's great stuff.

I can't get LC LR or clone loads to shoot as-good-as or better then a 168 HPBT at 600 yards. I'm still messing around with this load and hope to get it right some day. My current prep is;

LC LR brass, federal primers, 43.1 of RL15, 175 SMK, OAL mag length.
Try 42.0 IMR-4064 or 41.5 Varget COAL 2.82-2.83(maglenth) see if they close up.
 

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We reloaders need to keep in mind that most people only get to shoot 600 yds on match day. And remind folks that at 600 yds unless you're shooting on a very still day it can be tough to seperate the wind's effect from the group size. One way is to group at say 300 and then if satisfied take it back to 6. Once at 6 if you feel the wind is shoving you around a bit then look for waterline shots. At least that will tell you if you're getting uniform velocities

I am not an authority but that's the way I developed some good loads. Would like to hear other opinions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks, everybody, for your help! I'll be looking for jugs of IMR-4064 and IMR-4895. (Anyone using H-4895?)
 

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the good thing about 175gn and up is that id stays stable when it gos subsonic making it better for longer range shooting. 168 tends to wobble and stray off a bit...
 

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My load development to clone the M118LR.

GGG Brass - 2.005
CCI#34 primer
41.5g IMR4064
COAL 2.825
175SMK

I know the M118LR is prescribed with the Fed 210M primer but I got better results from CC!#34. Not alot better though. Go figure.

It's a winner in my M25 - 22inch WMMW

Ole Silver
 

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We reloaders need to keep in mind that most people only get to shoot 600 yds on match day. And remind folks that at 600 yds unless you're shooting on a very still day it can be tough to seperate the wind's effect from the group size. One way is to group at say 300 and then if satisfied take it back to 6. Once at 6 if you feel the wind is shoving you around a bit then look for waterline shots. At least that will tell you if you're getting uniform velocities

I am not an authority but that's the way I developed some good loads. Would like to hear other opinions.

+1

When you have a good load it makes it a lot easier to read and keep up with the wind. A good test is if you can punch the X ring with the first shot at 600 yards.
 

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We reloaders need to keep in mind that most people only get to shoot 600 yds on match day. And remind folks that at 600 yds unless you're shooting on a very still day it can be tough to seperate the wind's effect from the group size. One way is to group at say 300 and then if satisfied take it back to 6. Once at 6 if you feel the wind is shoving you around a bit then look for waterline shots. At least that will tell you if you're getting uniform velocities

I am not an authority but that's the way I developed some good loads. Would like to hear other opinions.
I cheat a bit, when I had access to a chrono I did my chrono work at 100yds, when I has happy with the numbers I then tested accuracy at 200yds. Worked for me.
 

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It shoots well out of my 7.62 Garand. The 05 is supposed to be not as hot as previous years, the load was adjusted as the Middle East temperatures were causing higher than desired velocity.

Glad I bought mine before the prices went screaming up. Keeping my remaining stash for 600-1000 range.
 

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I had a small lot myself about 3 years ago, I have to say it was on par with any good match ammo such as Black Hills or Federal Gold Match.

The Lake City brass is very good, definetely keep it for reloading! It's a little thicker/heavier than some brass such as Federal, so a slight reduction in charge may be in order.

As for as the powders mentioned, don't rule out giving Reloader 15 a try.
 

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M118 LR Receipe

What I load in my M1A Super, and M-1.308 is, 41.5/IMR 4895 under a 168 Sierra, and 42.0/IMR 4895 under a 155 Palma, both loaded to 2.800,
for 2-300 yards.
On the 175's I load 42.5/IMR 4064 loaded to 10 thousand off the lands.
When my first barrel was getting some wear I upped it to 43.0/4064, as the shell casing had more capacity as I was chasing the throat.
The Accuracy load in the the One Caliber book is 42.2/IMR4064.
You will find a zero change when changing powders, after 2-3 rounds you are good to go.
I shoot with a former member of the All Guard Team, and he worked on my Super, and my M-1 .308 he made.
The 175's were his loads, he worked them up as he got the first ones from Sierra.
 

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What I load in my M1A Super, and M-1.308 is, 41.5/IMR 4895 under a 168 Sierra, and 42.0/IMR 4895 under a 155 Palma, both loaded to 2.800,
for 2-300 yards.
On the 175's I load 42.5/IMR 4064 loaded to 10 thousand off the lands.
When my first barrel was getting some wear I upped it to 43.0/4064, as the shell casing had more capacity as I was chasing the throat.
The Accuracy load in the the One Caliber book is 42.2/IMR4064.
You will find a zero change when changing powders, after 2-3 rounds you are good to go.
I shoot with a former member of the All Guard Team, and he worked on my Super, and my M-1 .308 he made.
The 175's were his loads, he worked them up as he got the first ones from Sierra.
Don't you just love it when people tell you what works well in there rifle but forget one vital piece of information. Its like when your building a puzzle and the company forgets too put one piece in the box and your looking for hours and you cant find it so you blame the cat for stealing it.

What BRASS did you use??
 
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Brass Prep

My Brass prep and what I use is,
I use 1 fired Brass, MG L.C. for my 2-300 yards, all the same year sized to SAAMI using Hornady New Dimension Dies on my 550 Dillon, using a Dillon case gauge, I trim them every time using a Gracey, the first time removing the most.
I remove the crimp using a Dillon Swager.
Clean the pockets using a Gracey pocket cleaner.
I hand weigh every charge on a Dillon electronic scale.
I use it three times, for Match shooting, then it goes into as practice brass, using the same procedure, I remove brass before Head seperations, and get 2-3 times use of out of them.
On 600 yards, I use Match L.C. seperated by years that has been fired in Match chambers, prepped the same as my short line brass.
I use Remington Large Rifle Primers, I have used Winchester , and Federal, but like Remington.
I use the Brass on any of my .308 Service Rifles, not rifle specific.

Hope I did not leave anything out ?
 
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